Blade 360CFX 3S Side Flop

[Low_Cal]

Hi - I'm new on here - thought I would join and see if you guys could give me some help with my brand new 360CFX 3S, which likes to flop over on T/O, stripping large drive gear and cyclic servos.

I've never managed to get it off the ground without this happening. About a half dozen attempts, it does the same thing every time: As I slowly spool it up, it gets light on the skids, then suddenly flops over on its right side so fast, I can barely react in time with counter cyclic inputs or Throttle Hold.

I've went through the Servo Adjustment Mode in the manual, adjusting servo neutral and leveling the swashplate while in that mode.

About me: I've been flying since the early '90's, Baron 30 - Vigor 60. Took break for 10 years, then recently put a couple hundred flights on a Blade 230 which I can fly 3D in the agility modes.

[PilotPin]

First thoughts are to much vibration for the fbl unit or swash plate sensor direction is set for the wrong direction.

What fbl unit are you using?

[fiddle]

Are you plugging it in before you carry it to the flight line? I've found that this FBL likes to become quite confused when you move it around after plugging it in. My first crash was because of that. Plugged it in at picnic table. Carried it 25 or 30 feet to flight line. Tried to take off and it was all wonky ... crash. I plug it in at the flight line and don't move it now.


by "this FBL" , I mean the ar636 receiver/FBL combo that comes with the thing.

[Low_Cal]

Guilty as charged - carrying the heli about 30 ft after plugging in lipo. I'll try plugging it in on the heli pad, just hope it doesn't tip over again - getting tired of replacing gears and servos. Maybe I'll try that with training gear attached.

Yep, I've verified that the swash plate is reacting in the correct direction with gyro.

I wondered about vibration getting to it, but nothing is touching the AR636. Maybe I should check the balde balance and tracking. Funny thing, I tried spooling up the heli while I held it by the skids above my head, and didn't notice any tendancy for it to lean or tip. I was wearing gloves, saftety glasses and helemet when I did that!

Yep, using the FBL that came with the thing, the AR636, which I'm becoming convinced is a piece of junk! Yet the AR636 in the little Blade 230v2 works fine. The programming is obviously different, though, and this is also a more responsive heli. I have a Spirit Pro on order. I only got the "Pro" version, because the standard one was on backorder. But still, others are able to fly this with the AR636, so something must be wrong.

[Low_Cal]

Originally Posted by darren.ankney@gmail.com

Are you plugging it in before you carry it to the flight line? I've found that this FBL likes to become quite confused when you move it around after plugging it in. My first crash was because of that. Plugged it in at picnic table. Carried it 25 or 30 feet to flight line. Tried to take off and it was all wonky ... crash. I plug it in at the flight line and don't move it now.

Update on this: So I tried powering it up at the acutal T/O site, and the tip-over problem is gone! Thanks, darren! Why couldn't the Horizon tech support guy have told me this? Better yet, print it in the freaking manual!

I still don't have it flying well though, but that might be because I installed way under-sized, flexible nylon blades (from a Blade 230) as a precaution, to limit damage. I think I also need to level my swash a little better (had to use some trim to neutralize it). So I'll do that, replace the blades, and try again.

[fiddle]

Originally Posted by Low_Cal

Update on this: So I tried powering it up at the acutal T/O site, and the tip-over problem is gone! Thanks, darren! Why couldn't the Horizon tech support guy have told me this? Better yet, print it in the freaking manual!

I still don't have it flying well though, but that might be because I installed way under-sized, flexible nylon blades (from a Blade 230) as a precaution, to limit damage. I think I also need to level my swash a little better (had to use some trim to neutralize it). So I'll do that, replace the blades, and try again.

I'm not sure its expected behavior. I'm not sure how good the FBL from Spektrum are... I'm going to find out though as I'm building an Oxy 4 Max somewhat soon (if it ever arrives from backorder) with MSH Brain 2 FBL ... Provided I set it up correctly, I'll find out if the helicopter is more resilient to such things.


PS: I also found that if you adjust the position of the tail before takeoff (as in give rudder input before leaving the ground), the 360cfx has a tendency to then constantly slow piro to one side throughout the entire flight requiring constant slight rudder input to keep it straight. Crashed because of that one too as a newb.

[Low_Cal]

Originally Posted by darren.ankney@gmail.com

I'm not sure its expected behavior. I'm not sure how good the FBL from Spektrum are... I'm going to find out though as I'm building an Oxy 4 Max somewhat soon (if it ever arrives from backorder) with MSH Brain 2 FBL ... Provided I set it up correctly, I'll find out if the helicopter is more resilient to such things.


PS: I also found that if you adjust the position of the tail before takeoff (as in give rudder input before leaving the ground), the 360cfx has a tendency to then constantly slow piro to one side throughout the entire flight requiring constant slight rudder input to keep it straight. Crashed because of that one too as a newb.

Wow, thanks for the heads-up on moving the tail! I typically do that a little before T/O, just to verify its responding in the correct direction.

Man, that AR636 in the Blade 360 seems like junk! Funny thing is, the AR636 they put in the little Blade 230s works just awesome. Must be a difference in the firmware programming.

I'm going to give this thing one more try, after reinstalling the original blades. Then I'm going to pull that *#$@! AR636 and replace it with a Spirit Pro, which I already have. That will require some setup, and modding the frame slightly - The Spirt Pro is just a little too wide. Standard red Spirit would have fit perfectly. Guessing the results will be well worth it, though.

[fiddle]

Originally Posted by Low_Cal

Wow, thanks for the heads-up on moving the tail! I typically do that a little before T/O, just to verify its responding in the correct direction.

Thats completely fine before spool up. I did it after spool up as I wanted to take off tail-in (newb here) and it had shifted during spoolup. It seems to become confused... perhaps because of the resistance of the ground requiring more tail rotor action to start or ... something like that maybe...


Never did it again after that

[Low_Cal]

Just as a follow up to this subject, she's flying great now! I leveled swash plate carefully with the Align tool, and put the stock blades back on. Immediately got a nice stable hover, for the first time in trying all summer!

It was what darren said - this thing must be powered up on the heli pad, no carrying it around once plugged in. This REALLY needs to be stated in the manual.

Still one small issue, a bit of a tail wag. I'm going to see if I can back off the gyro gain a bit to solve this.

[Low_Cal]

Reporting back here again in the interest of science and for the benefit of others. I put the tail gain on a transmitter knob and adjusted in-flight (hover). Couldn't tune out the wag - just change the speed of it.

I then had a look at the tail servo geometry, and noticed it was really whacky (factory setup, new heli). Servo wheel travel was not at all centered, having to drive to the far limit of the servo on one side. I also rotated servo mount on boom to reduce friction a bit, but it wasn't too bad to start with. Actuating it by hand felt smooth. Went back in the Spirit FBL and reset the tail servo limits.

All this reduced the wag, but there is still just a little bit. Seems to like a lower gain best, around 40%. Overall, the 360 is flying very nice now, both in stabi and normal mode with stabi off. Did some very smooth stall turns and loops. Time to try idle up 1 and 2 next.

[BrokeDad]

If you are getting any up and down tail wag try lowering the cyclic gain.

[Low_Cal]

Originally Posted by BrokeDad

If you are getting any up and down tail wag try lowering the cyclic gain.

Nope, all side to side wag. Cyclic seems very stable, but I haven't tried flipping it yet. Will need to max out cyclic throw first. It will hover hands-off, once out of ground effect. I also put new tail blades on it, but that didn't help much. Seems like the tail rotor pitch control mechanism has a little more play in it than I would like. Are there some good aftermarket pieces to tight it up? Thinking that could be the problem.

Other than the persistant tail wag, really like this heli.

[BrokeDad]

There was an Microheli AL tail case made. I have one for my 360CFX 6S. I've not put it on yet or the dual bearing swash. Same one fits 270CFX/360CFX.

https://www.microheli.com/blade-360-...e-270-cfx.html

I have a Spirit on mine now also and not had any wag issues. But it's an older 6S version.

[Low_Cal]

Yep I see those parts on Microheli. I've gotten parts from them in the past for my Blade 230. I think I might try that cnc pitch slider and lever - I believe that's where the slop is.

I also looked at the other site you mentioned earlier (Lynx)- they have something Microheli doesn't - a cnc polymer main drive gear. I'm hearing the out of round molded gears can also cause the tail wag.

So with all these upgrade parts, maybe I can finally get the tail to hold still. Thinking I should have just bought a T-rex! Its taken a lot of work to make this a good heli.

I tried flipping it today with success, but it rotated slow. So I turned up the cyclic limits in the Spirit tonight - will test fly it tomorrow. Hope I didn't make it too sensitive.

[2Huvr]

check your gyro on your swashplate. i have found mine is reversed on the swash and the rudder, and no way yet to correct it...Horizon can even figure it out.....

[The_Fox]

Yep I see those parts on Microheli. I've gotten parts from them in the past for my Blade 230. I think I might try that cnc pitch slider and lever - I believe that's where the slop is.

I also looked at the other site you mentioned earlier (Lynx)- they have something Microheli doesn't - a cnc polymer main drive gear. I'm hearing the out of round molded gears can also cause the tail wag.

I have mouted the Microheli cnc pitch slider on both my 360. Works fine. Cnc tail pitch lever i have mounted the one from Lynx Heli, works well.
I have allso mounted the Microheli cnc tail gear case on one of them. Works well. I prefer my Helis to run silent and "round", so i mounted the 136T Lynx Heli main drive gear. (Stock has 135T). It runs fine.

On one of my 360cfx i tryed the Microheli tail rotor kit, including central piece and cnc blade grips. Bad tail wag, the bearings are crap. They sent another tail rotor kit, same issue. Changed to the HH cnc tail grips, and everything was fine.

[Low_Cal]

Originally Posted by 2Huvr

check your gyro on your swashplate. i have found mine is reversed on the swash and the rudder, and no way yet to correct it...Horizon can even figure it out.....

Not using stock gyro, I have a Spirit on my 360cfx.

[Low_Cal]

Originally Posted by The_Fox

I have mouted the Microheli cnc pitch slider on both my 360. Works fine. Cnc tail pitch lever i have mounted the one from Lynx Heli, works well.
I have allso mounted the Microheli cnc tail gear case on one of them. Works well. I prefer my Helis to run silent and "round", so i mounted the 136T Lynx Heli main drive gear. (Stock has 135T). It runs fine.

On one of my 360cfx i tryed the Microheli tail rotor kit, including central piece and cnc blade grips. Bad tail wag, the bearings are crap. They sent another tail rotor kit, same issue. Changed to the HH cnc tail grips, and everything was fine.

Yep I remember you mentioning that on another thread. Aftermarket parts are not always better than stock. Thanks for the reminder, Fox.