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Mikado V-BAR Mikado V-Stabi/V-BAR Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


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Old 10-02-2020, 06:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by curmudgeon View Post
I have a VBCt, eight Neo VLinks with Pro/Rescue, and one Neo receiver. I like how the Neo Vlink is both a FBL unit and a receiver in a compact package. I like how the VBCt radio and Neo VLink integrate 100%, so no need for a laptop. The VBCt radio has integrated WiFi, so I never have to connect it to a computer. The Neo VLink firmware also updates wirelessly, so I never have to connect it to a computer either.


As much as I am pretty happy with this system, I cannot recommend a Neo to someone who is not committed to also purchasing a VBC radio. With Spektrum radios, I consider both Spirit and/or Brain2/iKon2 better options as they offer integration and telemetry which you would not get with a Neo.
I have never had my NEO or VBCt connected to a PC.

I agree - without a Vcontrol radio, I don't understand wanting a NEO. The magic is in the combo.
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Old 10-03-2020, 03:03 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fiddle View Post
You know it is. I used to think that the NEO was expensive, but then I considered what you got versus what I was paying for spectrum + brain2:

NEO - $250 + $97 (USD) for pro-Rescue: $347
Brain2 - $165 + 4651t - $40 + 2x9745 - $70: $275

Its a bit more but not like I thought when initially looking at $165 compared to $347. Gotta put those receivers in there.
FWIW.. You dont need three receivers with Spektrum. The SPM4651T is a dual diversity receiver, just like the receiver in the VControl. If you are happy to rely on a single dual diversity VControl receiver then you should be equally happy to rely on a similar single Spektrum receiver.

If you want the additional security of three way receiver redundancy then I'm not sure you can even do that at any price with VControl? If you can it's going to be expensive.
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Old 10-03-2020, 05:39 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Smoggie View Post
FWIW.. You dont need three receivers with Spektrum. The SPM4651T is a dual diversity receiver, just like the receiver in the VControl. If you are happy to rely on a single dual diversity VControl receiver then you should be equally happy to rely on a similar single Spektrum receiver.

If you want the additional security of three way receiver redundancy then I'm not sure you can even do that at any price with VControl? If you can it's going to be expensive.
Maybe ... but several people say you need as many satellites as you can get with Spectrum and the fades I get on my radio would tend to concur with that assessment... Many of these same people say you don't need sats with any other radio system (many of them ex: Jeti, Mikado don't even make them or don't sell them in the USA).

Plankers at my field will run many sats (one guy was running like five) on their planes when using spektrum but run none when using Futaba (don't know if Futaba even has sats) .. it seems that Spektrum has a range problem with their signal technology I guess or something (or so I've been told).

Even with two sats, my Oxy5 MEG fell out of the sky once ... just shut the motor off and fell out of the sky. There was some argument about what caused it over in the brain2 forum, but braindev said it was loss of signal from the logs/graph data that was available (I still think it was a software glitch). That + the poor gimbals and no charging light on my dx8g2 got me looking for something different and I ended up with a Vcontrol touch... couldn't be happier Getting the system and setting it up on my Goblin 500 and then comparing it to the old system gave me the same sort of feeling you get when you buy a new gaming computer after like 6 years (or insert any long period between purchases of things such as cars where technology has significantly advanced in the time between) ... the night and day difference ... the advanced technology ...
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Old 10-03-2020, 07:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I honestly dont think there is any evidence that Spektrum has less range than any other standard 2.4GHz system. The satellite 'thing' I think comes from the fact that early Spektrum receivers were not diversity antenna, so satellites were needed to add that diversity. These days most Speky receivers are diversity, just like any other brand, but the satellite 'habit' is a hard one to break.

FWIW I dont disagree, Spektrum has fallen a bit behind in the technology stakes. I moved away from Speky a couple of years ago to Jeti.
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Old 10-03-2020, 07:05 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Smoggie View Post
I honestly dont think there is any evidence that Spektrum has less range than any other standard 2.4GHz system. The satellite 'thing' I think comes from the fact that early Spektrum receivers were not diversity antenna, so satellites were needed to add that diversity. These days most Speky receivers are diversity, just like any other brand, but the satellite 'habit' is a hard one to break.

FWIW I dont disagree, Spektrum has fallen a bit behind in the technology stakes. I moved away from Speky a couple of years ago to Jeti.
You might be right on the sat thing ... There is certainly the possibility of unjustified paranoia with $3k worth of equipment floating about in the air!
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Old 10-03-2020, 08:28 AM   #26 (permalink)
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You might be right on the sat thing ... There is certainly the possibility of unjustified paranoia with $3k worth of equipment floating about in the air!
it's not paranoia... there are clear recommendations given by the Spektrum developers (ie Miguel Alvarez) to use at least 2 RXs on "anything 500+"... i guess they know why they are recommending it.

before i switched to Jeti i was testing the 4651T (switching diversity only!) which was really working good on a Logo 400SE (480 size, full plastic, no CF frame) as a single receiver (but not the 4649T before). on all of my bigger helis 1 additional sat (full rx on the back & on sat in the front) was a real need to avoid massive fades and many frame losses. today i am flying 1 Jeti Rex3 on the back with permanent 100% signal quality on all helis, even the 700 birds. same is valid for Mikado and Futaba.

Ciao
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Last edited by Rabid121; 10-03-2020 at 09:22 AM..
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Old 10-04-2020, 02:48 AM   #27 (permalink)
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it's not paranoia... there are clear recommendations given by the Spektrum developers (ie Miguel Alvarez) to use at least 2 RXs on "anything 500+"... i guess they know why they are recommending it.

before i switched to Jeti i was testing the 4651T (switching diversity only!) which was really working good on a Logo 400SE (480 size, full plastic, no CF frame) as a single receiver (but not the 4649T before). on all of my bigger helis 1 additional sat (full rx on the back & on sat in the front) was a real need to avoid massive fades and many frame losses. today i am flying 1 Jeti Rex3 on the back with permanent 100% signal quality on all helis, even the 700 birds. same is valid for Mikado and Futaba.

Ciao
Michael
I cant dispute this at all, I've personally never tested it (I always used to use a redundant satellite when i was using Spektrum) but it's strange to say the least that only Spektrum should need these additional receivers when all are brands are now using the same diversity antenna primary receiver technology.

Is Spektrum's RF performance really so much worse than all other 2.4GHz protocols? This seems hard to understand given that they have been doing the 2.4GHz 'thing' longer than any other brand and have had three iterations of their DSM technology in which to 'get it right'.

Idle curiosity on my part because i dont have a dog in the fight anymore, I'm on Jeti now and using a single receiver with no issues.
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Old 10-04-2020, 05:07 AM   #28 (permalink)
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.... i dont have a dog in the fight anymore....
same here!
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:23 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Smoggie View Post
I cant dispute this at all, I've personally never tested it (I always used to use a redundant satellite when i was using Spektrum) but it's strange to say the least that only Spektrum should need these additional receivers when all are brands are now using the same diversity antenna primary receiver technology.

Is Spektrum's RF performance really so much worse than all other 2.4GHz protocols? This seems hard to understand given that they have been doing the 2.4GHz 'thing' longer than any other brand and have had three iterations of their DSM technology in which to 'get it right'.

Idle curiosity on my part because i dont have a dog in the fight anymore, I'm on Jeti now and using a single receiver with no issues.
I was talking to a planker yesterday who just got the shiny new IX12 (against my advice - i told him to look at Jeti) and he was showing me the receiver that was going into his new plane. It came with a satellite right in the package. He said there was another one that was 12 channels that came with 4 satellites (or 5 I can't remember exactly) and different lengths of cable so you could mount the sats all over your plane. The one he had had diversity antennas also. It seems even they know they have a problem.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:36 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I was still flying my JRX9303 this summer and had a vortex fbl on it. Needless to say one day I checked my sat under the canopy and the lights were flashing. Rebooted the radio went for a flight and came back and was flashing again. Meanwhile, it was doing strange things in flight and someone had mentioned radio glitches. I upgraded to VBar with all same equipment and all the nonsense stopped. I doubt it was the Vortex. Doesn't matter anymore.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:37 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I was still flying my JRX9303 this summer and had a vortex fbl on it. Needless to say one day I checked my sat under the canopy and the lights were flashing. Rebooted the radio went for a flight and came back and was flashing again.
Flashing does not indicate a reception problem.

The flashing used to (back in DSM2 days) indicate 'brownout'. A brownout is when there was an interruption in the supply of power to the receiver. So if you had this then you should be looking at the adequacy of the BEC or Rx battery.

The flashing would also happen if you re-start the receiver without also re-starting the transmitter because this 'fools' the receiver into thinking it's had a brownout.

With DSMX the flashing doesnt happen, it's only a feature of DSM2.
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Old 10-04-2020, 09:14 AM   #32 (permalink)
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i guess one reason is that Spek does not really have a good single-line receiver for helis that can be compared to i.e. Jeti's Rex3 (light, tiny, full diversity, multi protocol, telemetry enabled, 4 ports, Sat capable, 900Mhz backup, etc etc etc).

the 4651T is +/- same price, but not 'full' diversity - it's only switching diversity (when problems on antenna 1 the Rx is switching to antenna 2 hoping signal is better there... it's not constantly receiving on both antennas like Mikado or Jeti). it cannot accept a sat by itself. it cannot connect telemetry sensors or Escs by itself. is only speaks SRXL2. etc etc etc

the bigger Spek receivers are simply taking more place and w/ additional sats more problems to be solved in cabling and antenna positioning. been there 10+ yrs... and after AR7700 it did not get better... it's working but far from perfect. not want to blame them... we're just discussing... i'm happy today. we are simply not their focus customers.
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:05 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I never ran into any issues with Spektrum products when I used to fly Spektrum. However, Horizon Hobby customer service is very quick to disclaim that it does not support using Spektrum "satellite receivers" with none Spektrum products like FBL units. So in HH's mind, any mishap when using satellite receivers with FBL units not supported by Spektrum (Brain, iKon, Spirit, Vbar, etc.) would not be Spektrum's fault.
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Old 10-09-2020, 05:20 PM   #34 (permalink)
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This is my thinking,
If you only plan to run Vbar, then Vcontrol makes sense.

If you want to run different fbl units, have a simple receiver in something like a glider and or want to fly any of the bnf stuff, Spektrum makes sense.

I had the original Vcontrol, and decided to only use Vbar neo, then I decided to go back to the club and fly my planes with other friends, well the cost to setup one plane let alone multiple was just ridiculous. Besides that aside from using the Vcontrol a couple of times for setup I never used it for programming beyond those times.

Is Vcontrol a decent radio? Well yes, but it comes at a cost and bare in mind you don’t get any sort of bundle discount cause you own one together with Vbar. (Pro rescue etc)

I really do think Vbar is worth it, but I haven’t flown one in 5 years, in that time others have made big strides in development.

I’m making the switch to Spektrum at the moment, and definitely considering all options as far as fbl systems including Vbar Neo.
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Old 10-09-2020, 05:31 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Iím making the switch to Spektrum at the moment, and definitely considering all options as far as fbl systems including Vbar Neo.
YOu'll be sorry- better to switch to Jeti.
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Old 10-09-2020, 05:34 PM   #36 (permalink)
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YOu'll be sorry- better to switch to Jeti.
No, Jeti is not suitable in my hands amongst other things.
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Old 10-09-2020, 06:00 PM   #37 (permalink)
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doesnt make any sense to have a neo without a vcontrol tx.
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Old 10-09-2020, 06:33 PM   #38 (permalink)
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doesn't make any sense to put Spektrum above Jeti or vcontrol .. Spektrum is terrible with terrible gimbals.
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Old 10-09-2020, 07:56 PM   #39 (permalink)
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the horse wont drink from the water.
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Old 10-12-2020, 09:52 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fiddle View Post
I agree - without a Vcontrol radio, I don't understand wanting a NEO. The magic is in the combo.
Should I take this as 'there's nothing special about a V-bar in terms of flight performance'?

The only reason I'm considering trying a V-bar is because I've read that it's a great fbl. I'm willing to sacrifice the lack of integration with my DX8 if it offers excellent performance with a Logo.

I've been flying Spartan and Spirit, but wanting to try something new.
Not ruling out trying Vcontrol down the road if I like V-bar.
Chris
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