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Old 10-08-2020, 08:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Unexpectedly HOT Egodrift 4035-560 10P

So I'm running a brand new Ego 4035-560 10P and Kontronik Kolibri 140 HV-I ESC in my 12s Diabolo 700UL.

The motor temp after the 5 min (smooth 3D) flight was 180F/82C which was much hotter than I expected. Ambient outdoor temp was only 69F/20C I don't think my Scorps ever got above 170.

The previous motor (Xera 4035/2Y- 600) never got hotter than 150F/65C (and that was in 90F ambient outdoor temps)

This is at only 80% throttle setting and I think I actually need to go 1 pinion higher to get in a better range of my preferred headspeeds (1500/1600/1850)

Kontronik ESC's have variable timing by default, but can be set to one value with software (which I will try).

That said, I wanted to see if anyone else has one that runs extremely hot first.

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Old 10-08-2020, 10:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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2 out of 3 of my egodrifts get too hot (75c)... I will replace them with xnovas.
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Old 10-08-2020, 10:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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XNova acquired Xera motor designs
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Old 10-09-2020, 06:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Where/how are you measuring the temps, out of curiosity? The 40 series Egodrift motors do run a little warmer than the larger 45 series, and on my Kolibri 140 escs I fixed the timing at a value of 8 to get a good balance of power and temps. I've also found that my fet temps reported by the ESC are about 10degreesC over what they should be (reports around 30C even before the first flight).

Try playing with your timing, from 4 up to 12 and see how that goes?

On my Diabolo 550 (4025-1050) I put a couple of vents, top and bottom of the cano, helps with airflow

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
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Old 10-09-2020, 07:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I use a Graupner micro-infrared thermometer #1964

I always measure my motor temps inside the vents at the top of the can from about 1" away. This is obviously one of the hottest places to take a reading but the highest temp reading is my primary concern.

I do check multiple vents just for comparison.

Maybe after I try a timing setting of 8, I will try 4 and 12 just to see how it responds.

As for the vents, been there, done that from the beginning (see pic).
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Old 10-11-2020, 08:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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i think a slightly larger motor with a bigger can will work less. not bigger kv, just a larger dia can.
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Old 10-13-2020, 09:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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So to update...

I changed the Kontronik Kolibri 140 HV-I timing from "auto" to 8

Then I did 4 flights in 70 ambient temp with 18mph winds gusting to 29 (yes, it was challenging). Measurements were taken appx 45-60 seconds after the flights.

Flight 1:
Motor (inside top vent) = 181

Flight 2:
Motor (inside top vent) = 196.6
Motor (outside top of can) = 156.2

ESC: 106.8

Flight 3:
Motor (inside top vent) = 191.9
Motor (outside top of can) = 158.1

ESC: 106.9

Flight 4:
Motor (inside top vent) = 197
Motor (outside top of can) = 161.9

ESC: 110.6
-------------------------

So lowering the timing setting manually to 8 in the ESC did not make any difference in the temps.

I could still try setting it to 6 or even 4 but something tells me that won't change the heat issue all that much.

Does anyone from Egodrift (Vincent) want to comment? I would like to know what the maximum acceptable temp is of these motors?
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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what *could* be expected if you move the bird (far) beyond daisy picking speed: Kan poonoi - Egodrift 4530HS 510... near end of the video. so you're the only one to compare the flights.

... this is supposed to be in Thailand - so for sure not really cool ambient temps. but generally the 45xx motors are running cooler than the 40xx ones. anyhow a bit strange - none of mine is showing this high delta between top vent / top of can measurement. it's more like 5-10C max and in your case it's around 20+C.
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Dear Dave,

first of all let me say that I'm sorry for the late reply. As mentioned a couple times here on HF already our office is undergoing a rather substantial remodeling project atm, which unfortunately causes some delays answering messages, my sincere apologies for that.

As Andy stated before, the smaller sized motors (40xx stators and below) tend to run warmer than our 45xx series Tengu motors known to be so cool running (admittedly setting the bar and expectations quite high for the other models).

Depending on the motor, setup and configuration, you might be seeing values anywhere between 120-180F, this is (by far) no reason to worry.
Especially the 4035 on large blades (700+ size) will run in the higher ends of this spectrum, but (especially our Japanese F3C pilots) usually accept this deliberately for the sake of the weight gain (or loss, rather) compared to the 45xx stator size that we usually recommend for 700 sized helis and blades.

In reality the magnets and wires we use in the Tengu motors are all high temperature resistant and could even withstand temperatures in excess of 250+ F easily - luckily we're nowhere near these ranges and as long as you don't experience anything like that, you're good.

That said, we're constantly developing our motors further and are dedicated to lowering the temperature on the smaller motors even more in the future, without sacrificing any of the big power they provide.

I hope to have helped you with this information, please let me know if you have any other questions, I'll do my best to answer them in a timely fashion.

kindest regards

Vincent
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Old 10-14-2020, 07:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Hi Vincent.

Thanks for the response.

So while the 45xx motors run cooler, I didn't catch (before purchase) that the 40xx motors did not run as cool.

That said, the width inside the Diabolo 700UL frame is 56.2mm.

The specs on your website list the 4525 and 4530 series can (outer diameter) as 56.4mm, so unless those published dimensions are off, I think that's a little too close for comfort and I would have had to go smaller anyway.

Just for kicks I measured my 4035-560 and it's 49.72mm and the published dimension is 49.60 so it's slightly larger in reality.

As far as the heat, I regularly fly in summer temps of 90-100

If the magnets can handle 200- 230+ all day on a regular basis, that's great. I just don't know if I feel comfortable beating on a motor with that.

I just wish the 45xx motor cans were slightly smaller in actual diameter.

If you (or anyone else) has any tips, I'm all ears.
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Old 10-14-2020, 07:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Dave View Post

If you (or anyone else) has any tips, I'm all ears.
Try 4 degrees?
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks Brian... I could try 4, but just going from auto to 8 dropped my HS from 1760 to 1700 (80% throttle on Kolibri) and I already have to go up to my 18t pinion to get back to my preferred HS range (1500-1800).

Going to 4 will drop HS even further and then I'd likely have to buy a 19t pinion to get back closer to 1800.

Then, going up 2 teeth from where I'm at is likely to make the motor run a little hotter again (negating lowering the timing). It's a vicious circle.

I think the best thing (as Pete said) is to just go back to auto timing so I think that's what I'm going to do. It's going to be a little while though as our weather just tanked so I won't be flying again for about a week or so.


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Originally Posted by xoexoe View Post
Try 4 degrees?
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Unexpectedly HOT Egodrift 4035-560 10P

I must have missed something... why would reducing timing reduce your head speed? Are you not using a governor? Thats probably unrelated to your temp issue, just curious is all. Good luck!
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I wasn't quite sure either, but since I used to race RC cars in the 80's, we were always playing with the timing to "eek out" just a little more power or speed with advancing (rotating) the end bell of our brushed motors. When doing so, we got more speed, but more heat as well.

I was assuming something similar in this instance (but now done electronically).

Yes, I'm using the Kontronik governor and in "auto timing", my HS was 1760. After I set it manually to 8, it is now 1700 so running it in "auto" must have been something (or several) higher than 8.

I'm not sure why it will not "hold" at 1760 if it's in gov. mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoexoe View Post
I must have missed something... why would reducing timing reduce your head speed? Are you not using a governor? That’s probably unrelated to your temp issue, just curious is all. Good luck!
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Old 10-16-2020, 01:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Just for reference I run a Tengu 4035 560kv in my 600 and while it runs warmer than the Tengu 4525HS 550kv in my 700, it is still cooler than other equivalent motors I’ve used in that same model.

//Dennis.
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