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Old 10-11-2020, 09:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 6250HX RPM out from non Avian ESC?

Hello,
Is it or will it be possible to utilize the RPM output wire from non Avian ESCs to display RPM on the radio or to use with future governor features?
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Old 10-11-2020, 11:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Currently, I am using CC ESCs with all my helicopters. They use an X-Bus data interface to translate the signals from the ESC that the 6250 and SRXL/SRXL2 remote receivers can then send to the transmitter. There may be work going on behind the scenes that no one will talk about openly but as this system matures, there may be ways to accomplish it in the future. In the meantime, it may be time to start looking at the other ESC manufacturers as the holdback and not the gyro manufacturer. The data input is there already. Maybe it is time to ask outfits like Scorpion and Hobbywing what they are doing to allow the data from their ESCs to be picked up by the 6250 and then received by your transmitter. They all have the SRXL/SRXL2 protocol and X-Bus information but seem to be doing nothing about allowing you be able to connect your ESC to the 6250 gyro. Take care.

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Old 10-12-2020, 09:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default 6250HX RPM out from non Avian ESC?

Hi Don,
I'm actually not referring to SRXL2 or telemetry but the standard RPM output that most ESCs and FBLs have been capable of using for a long time.
This is how all FBLs before have been able to control RPM of electric and nitro motors for governor.

The RPM out exists on hobbywing & Castle ESCs for a very long time (RPM output wire) and all nitro helis with motor mounted gov sensors. Even Avian ESCs have the RPM output wire.

I am suggesting that the 6250HX support that RPM wire and be able to transmit the RPM to the radio.

I know there is a plan for the 6250hx to have a nitro gov. Hopefully this is part of it.

Last edited by vertico; 10-12-2020 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 10-12-2020, 11:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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This has been considered from the beginning of the project however your request is very broad, if the rpm lead is signal compatible (which it will have to be tested and verified) then it would naturally operate as intended. Having said that I do recall some esc's requiring a optical coupler to avoid running 50v+ through the fc.

I will say that the marketing behind some fc internal governor implementations has been far better than the actual performance in my experience.

Regards,
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Old 10-12-2020, 02:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default 6250HX RPM out from non Avian ESC?

Hi Brian,
As pictured below the HobbyWing ESC has a yellow RPM output wire and the Avian ESC a gray RPM output wire. Additionally I also use (On my Kontronic ESCs or any ESC that does not have the RPM wire built in) a HobbyWing Brushless RPM sensor wired into my motor leads to produce the same general RPM signal into my flybarless unit. FWIW I've never had to use an optical coupler to get RPM signal from any of these.

My thought here is for the 6250hx to be able to interpret that signal and then send it to the radio so I can know what RPM I am at on any given throttle %

I agree with you on the FBL govs, I only use the built in ESC gov

Also just to throw on some 2cents, I love the Avian ESCs and the telemetry they provide but gov standardization on every single spool up drives me nuts and for me flight characteristic albeit a small one outweighs the telemetry benefits. I would 100% prefer gov store if the Avian had it.



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Old 10-12-2020, 07:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Phase sensors like you have shown are generally optically isolated (but not always). I remember seeing some reports of a opto coupler being needed on the hw yellow wire as well. Obviously I cannot really comment on others manufactures hardware being compatible or not.

Spektrum has a phase sensor, this might be supported in the future to provide the rpm telemetry you are looking for. Coincidence maybe, the spektrum backplate and spektrum phase sensors I ordered early last week were just delivered today via fedex.

In the case of the avian it really makes far more sense to just use the smart telemetry option. The extra signal lead is not functional and is not included on some avian esc's.

There is new firmware coming for the avian esc's which improves the soft start, bail out re-start and provides the ability to adjust the governor gain, all of which were requested a little over a year ago.

The avian is heli-stogov, once you change from air to heli make sure you perform the hw 50% throttle calibration step for 20 seconds on the 1st spool up.

Regards,
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Old 10-13-2020, 08:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbremer View Post

The avian is heli-stogov, once you change from air to heli make sure you perform the hw 50% throttle calibration step for 20 seconds on the 1st spool up.

Regards,
Brian,

Does this have to be performed with the main blades ON as shown in the vid or is it ok to run with them off?

Back when the video was made, the Evian 120 didn't exist, so I wasn't 100% sure it still applied to mine. I ran at 50% on the table with the blades off to calibrate and it seems to govern really well. I can't tell if the sequence took it properly or not. Is there a way to tell or to rerun the calibration?
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Old 10-13-2020, 11:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Basically;

http://hobbywing.com/products/enpdf/...umHV160AV4.pdf

Section 04 - 1.04 is what I was told to follow.

I take that as blades on, 0 collective, 50% throttle and 20 seconds for good measure. Based on the text I suspect the process is completed once the soft start has ended but a few extra seconds is not going to hurt. The text does indicate this is a 1 time deal and mentions a special process to standardize again later on if you want.

The avian 120 already has the updated firmware on it, I did inquire about the firmware update for the other avian esc's and was told this week.

Based on my testing for the new firmware in june I recommend heli stogov, governor gain low, freewheel on, motor start soft, motor timing low, and lvc @ 3.4v.

Regards,
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbremer View Post
The avian is heli-stogov, once you change from air to heli make sure you perform the hw 50% throttle calibration step for 20 seconds on the 1st spool up.

Hi Brian,
That is very interesting that this is the case because the manual for the Avian 100 has the governor verbiage for "Elf Governor" and actually does not mention that it is heli-stogov nor does it mention that you need to perform the 50% throttle calibration on first spool up.
That might actually explain the issues I've had with both of my Avian ESCs that I've tried on my Fusion 550. Because the language in the manual is for Elf Governor it reads as if it would be attempting to calibrate gov on every spool up and I never actually performed the proper 50% calibration on the 1st spool up.

I'll reset the ESC and calibrate for heli-stogov which I am quite familiar with.
If everything works out well I'll be switching all of my ESCs to Avian
Then I can use the full telemetry and won't be concerned with the RPM wire....until I get the 6250hx setup on my nitro soon


UPDATE:
I calibrated the ESC for Gov Store and it works perfectly now Not having any of the issues I was before...that explains a lot. Hopefully the manual gets update as with no mention of the calibration process I imagine I'm not the first. I actually saw over in the HW forum someone else stating they thought Avian was ELF Gov based on what they read in the manual so it's not just me

Either way glad it's working now and I'll be working to switching all of my helis over to Avian now!
No need for the RPM wire request I originally made...until start my 6250HX + Kraken 580 Nitro build here shortly


Thanks!
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Last edited by vertico; 10-18-2020 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I will forward your concerns about the manual to the product manager, I actually have not seen the manual since all of my testing and fc6250hx integration work was well before the manual was created.

The spektrum crank sensor will work for fc6250hx nitro governor in the future, anything signal compatible with that will work as well.

Once the avian firmware update is available I highly recommend updating to it, several improvements including a softer soft start.

Regards,
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Last edited by brianbremer; 10-20-2020 at 04:29 PM..
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Old 11-01-2020, 04:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbremer View Post
I will forward your concerns about the manual to the product manager, I actually have not seen the manual since all of my testing and fc6250hx integration work was well before the manual was created.

The spektrum crank sensor will work for fc6250hx nitro governor in the future, anything signal compatible with that will work as well.

Once the avian firmware update is available I highly recommend updating to it, several improvements including a softer soft start.

Regards,
Has this update been released yet?

I ask this cause as it stands, the Avian provides no real benefit to me over the Hobbywing v4 as it has all these settings available and also provides a very soft option for startup amongst others.

Last edited by Simo71; 11-01-2020 at 08:18 PM..
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Old 11-01-2020, 08:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 11-02-2020, 07:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Not sure if the update has been released, the best way to find out would be post the question to Spektrum on Facebook. Strength in #'s, one inquiry is not as important as 150 customer inquiries....

I am confused, has someone suggested changing from the HW to the Avian?

Regards,
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Old 11-02-2020, 02:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbremer View Post
The spektrum crank sensor will work for fc6250hx nitro governor in the future, anything signal compatible with that will work as well.

Hi Brian,
Just checking so I am prepared, is SPMA9569 the correct part number for the RPM sensor? I have the AR7200bx sensor cable already but I'm thinking it's likely the SPMA9569 cable that will plug into the side aux port?





Brent
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Last edited by vertico; 11-02-2020 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 11-02-2020, 04:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbremer View Post
Not sure if the update has been released, the best way to find out would be post the question to Spektrum on Facebook. Strength in #'s, one inquiry is not as important as 150 customer inquiries....

I am confused, has someone suggested changing from the HW to the Avian?

Regards,
No, itís that I already have the Hobbywing programming box so for me buying the HW esc would be more economic. And the HW does have more settings available currently.

Iím not on Facebook.

But 12 months is a long time to request an update, I know itís been a rough year.
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Old 11-03-2020, 04:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Vertico,

I am currently testing with the ar7200bx crank sensor, I do not recommend ordering anything yet as this is still pretty early in development.


Simo71,

I have been waiting on the update for 18 months.

If what you have works there is no good reason to make a change. I am running castle, hw, align (in planks) and avian esc's.

Regards,
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