Lehner 4025/4040 Presentation

[1BOHO]

Hi Christian,

I wanted to follow up with my own questions about these new Lehner motors. The first one is.....Am I correct that what you imply on the German site is two 4025's in tandem or a single 4140 with a contra setup can easily compete with an HK CoFe 5040? Will it look similar to the torqstar attached here and facilitate liquid cooling the same way? I could spray a cooling gas or flow ferrofluid in that manifold as well. I see at least Lehner understands single coil systems,parallel pathways, and solder. Max VP is wrong as a torqstar is not 12N it a 24N20P machine. If the new motor uses halbach system how many commutative poles will it actually be designated? Also what material is the bell? Is it aluminum with a flux ring or something else?

Thanks for your time and patience,
Hubert

[1BOHO]

Maybe its proprietary because im pretty sure this is showing more than 20 poles so is this the machine or not? LOL If there's a photo in existence ud know id find it. To be seeing for the first time the tech shown almost seems familiar. And this just doesnt strike me as a 83mm machine though theres nothing to reference its size in the photo but that def looks like more than 20 poles


Thanks
Hubert

[1BOHO]

Hi,
out of boredom, Andreas Lehner and I came up with another alternative drive and Andreas once calculated the data for the inner rotor 2240. Result: the motor can easily cope with the required 350 amperes and rotates 90000 rpm. For a short time, more than 400 amperes go with the 450g motor. If that's not enough, you can also choose the longer engine 2260, which consumes 800 amperes when accelerating in the world record model racing boat.
Yes, clearly the speeds are too high for the planes. So a gearbox is needed. In model making, a Reisenauer Super Chief is ideal and since most of the gearboxes are not capable of converting the power, two gearboxes should distribute the power. One supplies a two-blade propeller in the fuselage tip and the second is mounted on the other end of the engine and thus supplies a second propeller running in the same direction in the rear. A speed plane for such a drive would be something like a Spaceship One from Burt Rutsn or Vought Adam from the concept. The center fuselage with the drive and the batteries in the wings would be a solution. The tail unit is divided into CFRP tubes that form the double arm, starting from the wing, as the double arm. Short skirts attached as this could look like.

Since most of them do not want to have two propellers, I ordered a planetary gear last week that should also transmit the power alone with a 40 mm outside diameter. Since it was designed for the industry with thick flanges and mounting rings, it is still quite heavy as standard with over 300g, but there is still a lot to make easier. I will tell you whether it performs. Gear ratio 6: 1 for 15000 rpm on the propeller and since a three-blade generates the load of 350 amperes then four blades (two times two blades) for 466 amperes should be good. Less by reducing the diameter. When adjusting, you can change the speed with the inner runners by timing in a wide range.

Happy Amps

Christian

[1BOHO]

Halo Christian,
I'd like to ask how the torqstars rotors are segmented. Is this the iron, pm's or both. I'd also like to ask does optimizing the rotor for partial load efficiency have any effect of the full load efficiency.


Danke,
Hubert

[1BOHO]

Also Andreas wrote me and said the outrunner is about 90 days out give or take with covid19 delays.

He made no mention of not speculation and wanting a thread closed. Im sorry but RCN's Thomas Moldtmann did that censorship with zero direction from the OEM. FAKE NEWS! from RCN

The response from Andreas was quite friendly and prompt.

Regards
Hubert

@ The sanctuary…. you know Sebastian meant the 5040 you showed here that is def labeled CoFe series can you see it?


He likely confused it wit this 5050 turkey basting. WAJ!

[1BOHO]

I am in no way associated professionally with Lehner Motoren.So its better to let Hanz push his products if he feels the need I dont think he does or hed be the one contstantly talking across all the forums about his motors. HE does great work you can see and touch it so it speaks for itself. I know quite a bit about the new motors rotor system but I'll act like I do not out of respect for the fact I never should have had the information that belongs to somkeone else without some type of disclosure agreement. What happens when a genius uses no common sense in his dealings. But anyway.


Regards
Hubert.

[1BOHO]

https://www.rc-network.de/threads/le....802968/page-3

Für weitere Antworten geschlossen.

[1BOHO]

Man you had a forum here to present the motor and did nothing but then u inject it in his thread. WHY? It wont sell a Lehner and Im sure the world is tired of your nasty divorce that never has closure. You both get on my nerves. You drag me to Germany into your dumb ass wick3 fight and neither of you have presented a damn thing new in tangible winding in awhile. All you do follow each other internationally trolling. Why don't you both tear down walls in your own house there because you haven't taught anything about a motor here in quite awhile. Move on with your lives lest you both be real LOSERS!

This is really silly because no one is buying lehners or neu mototors for a boat with any real zeal in AMERICA here were you are posting. TP is cheaper than both performs well so he captures the US dollars now. What you all do isn't working because less and less of either of your brands is being purchased here. Economy and quiet vendors reign supreme. How much precious development time ignorance waste.

Itz also stellar what gets the thread from the eastern front finally closed. And the tangibly of the newer winds get further away from the masses because of you both. If all either of your intentions were to sell your friends stuff NONE of its should have ever been posted here. Seems obvious to me that truly teaching anyone about electric motors certainly isn't either of your real goals. EURO CES ops is all I see. I sell me friends stuff and there's no telling how much both of you have UNCLAIMED gifts as a result. Go back to where you both began and destroy forums there. You were both snuggled up under each other you fall out then try to seel to every American that neither of you are worthy after being hand in hand. There's photos that capture your alliance so why don't you both give it a rest already. Your only goal was to suck American dollars in and u did that so if you're done can the forum return to motor winding and repair not you two's toxic friendship.

THE TRUTH IS you loved Ralph and were praising him. He Loved you as well so please knock it off here. You haven't posed a thing about winding and repair. That's the forum we are in here at this time. There's only one person between you two in the photos. The owner of scorpion. Happy as ever as the dollars from US rolls in.

Grow up finally time is running out on real human growth!!! You've both destroyed friendships and gained enemies in this international journey. I hope its all worth it as the sun goes down. We die the motors and technology lives on as well as any legacies left here. Clearly its more important than either of you know. What was lost with Jim in forum nonsense can never be recaptured and your knowledge can end up the same way if you continue along this path. Good luck with it but it certainly is dumb. All the intelligence in the world means very little if willful drama and ignorance stand before it. It certainly did nothing but push me away because I'm at the scope while you do this contributing nothing to new winding or repair techniques. It did one thing good and that was to highlight how lazy and dependent Americans have gotten here on others for their "shaded" knowledge when engineering books are inclusive and always open for anyone to read.

[1BOHO]

Why not troll here where no new knowledge is being presented but the same old power ditto winds for cd rom motors when there is soo much more recent tech on the topology??

https://www.rc-network.de/threads/wi...ehen.11841673/

The guy is being told by one of PC's friends to copy an antiquated wind he did on a salvaged rom drive. He has not been presented with the optimal coil sides ratio for 24n22p I shared with you that destroys the two pole harmonic. He is also not shown the 2 inverter open ended semi-12 phase wind for this machine that produces a wind factor of .991 with very low THD.

They push me out of their forums because I push the new wind information from America that does not represent either of them or their friends products. LUCAS pushed for that. "Friend"

[1BOHO]

So you see here from a long time ago the courtesy of including some ones initials that did not one iota of this work or research into a 24N22P machine. According to their friends the flying experts that know nothing on RC line these ideas are from Mars so I named it as such. Nothing good is taught there on the exclusive sites but misery!

I also see the motor gods are still here. You see they share with them none of this international knowledge they LK intently at in the USA they just talk about Lehner and Scorpion. The "Strange American" made them come to me anyway after kicking me out. I know honestly in my heart the last thing you 2 want is some "BLACK" of African descent over there running his mouth contradicting the wind experts there. Just tell the truth at the end of they day. That's what this is all about. The systemic racism and your ideas that you are the superior minds in any room no matter who is in it with you. I wonder why you are here reading and looking if that is the case. I am the real fool here because I did not know who my real friends are. I had no business as a minority associating myself with anyone that believes in exclusive sites of learning based on nationality in the first place. These persons here aren't right to see their offenses with sweeping statements like that towards people and engineers of color. I am offended you are here at my pages but I cannot stop your viewing without blocking others. Jim would never care for this and you no longer have me as a friend with capable hands here in America. U know better than anyone what you've lost in me. We will die and you will never know again an honest friend like me in this life or the next. Clearly the motors can evolve but you 2 cannot develop a more inclusive view of the world technology and where it originates from.

Make sure you let them all know this most recent information licensed to me for you to look at and learn was done by African and South Korean engineers. The most recent Ferrofluid work you will look here for next was presented by the Chinese engineers. Go figure all these minority people with no "know how" as you say. Not even Dr. Gerling or Gurakuq believe in your stories, as they are all in the IEEE sharing and learning inclusively. You two are nothing but jive turkeys wasting the American modelers time with the fight. I'm sure neither of your companies u vouch for have a single dark skinned employee like me working or employed unless it is in some low paying job, but you here copying from them so u can try to make the hobby machines better. Since you don't give them the credit you'd give Dr Gerling for his work it is like stealing. Neither of you have presented a new thing in motor winding or repair that you have shown here in years. All you do is this...or talk to some guy about liquid cooling and carbon nanotubes that has not wound Cu traditionally on 12n14P.

He runs his mouth in emails to me about the social ills of America he knows nothing about, Throws me in his memes on your German forum pages trying to be funny and tries to copy my ideas HOWEVER he's struggled and thus still sent emails for my help got it and still cannot produce the winded motor .

Aloys Zimmermann, my German comrade is my suggested reference for anyone that seeks learning traditional windings without these two peoples political shenanigans. He's sent cases of NOMEX slot liners in different thicknesses here to me to wind the motors and has asked for zero in return. He does not make these offensive statements about the origins of genius though he is one. He shared his winds and machining knowledge with people freely and never engaged in the bad vibes. A really good senior I'd prefer to emulate. I wish I had a way to Germany to meet this man in his shop. I bet there's alot more to learn there. My estranged "brother" has made the choice to go out this way. Very smart but unwilling to grow socially in a way that would signify real Bruderschaft between us.

Congrats to LEHNER for his tangible motor work.

Farewell.
Hubert

[1BOHO]

The idea from early 2000 to create counter rotating motor with a spinning armature and rotor isn't truly new to the world. I certainly would not grant it a patent at that time or now as original. What it is is a more expensive design to manufacture. If this is the future in mass motor design it doesn't explain all the heavy research in simpler machines using ferrite material versus rare earth. What the African Doctors have found at ABB here in the USA is that they can reduce motor temperature at the source not the end result of the source which is noise and distortion from the slot harmonics. Into the future certainly just an amendment in wind is much more cost effective. A spinning armature is still nothing but air cooling it is in no way as innovative or as effective in pinpointing and mitigating heat in the windings and pm structures as ferrofluid. It also does nothing really for improving the magnetic relationship in the gap where real gains can be made in torque efficiency and cooling. Its cool but I don't see it as anything breathtaking to brag about. We have the test information about viscosities you want and have the technology already applied at expected frequencies of operation from which special blends of ferrofluid are already manufactured with the operationally correct viscosities applied. I will tell you since you do not know that ferrofluid designed for a tweeter sub woofer are different and of course these two linear motors operate at different frequencies, gap widths, and operational temperatures. A real genius can make the deductions from this and research specifically an available blend. PC should not have have closed his thread over the harmless post versus giving his technical opinion of it. Certainly Lehner could develop this CR motor tech his friend developed if they found great value in its addition to their fleet. Easy to be the assumed originators of concepts when no one but you is allowed in the rooms to speak. Be brave and open your eastern forum doors to academic challenges from other brains. It also help if you ask your cheerleading friends who are no engineers to stand down when real working field engineers are talking. We don't sit in an office at a pc all running our mouths day we are out here in the trenches of technology making this theoretical shit work when it doesn't.

That said I don't see proposed counter rotational technology from mid 2000 that proposes the use of brushes in a dc motor as a great leap in tech. In my opinion independently driven counter rotating motors wound correctly this way with the right flight controller and advanced power drive can do so much more. There's is so much more flexibility that way. In fact the Y-D can be used to connect Patz's two machines above through one drive and provide filtering simultaneously. What isn't novel about that? The system omits the weight of a additional inverter and as a y-d tandem the power system should run much cooler and develop more torque. The heli pilots can fly these new winds today. They don't have to wait or pay for any expensive heli specific drive. Your inrunners are perfect candidates for ferrofluid testing. They have relatively smooth rotors with fully encapsulated windings and you can get the motor enclosed.

Air-gap flux is excited by the excited current and the excited current will decrease theoretically with the addition of excited reactance. With the decrease in the excited current, the copper loss is reducing and the efficiency of the machine improves. A friction computational model of a AM-WFIG was built to analyze the influence of the ferrofluid viscosity. The improvement in efficiency is also the negative acceleration with the increasing relative permeability. Therefore the study provides favorable guidance in the balance of viscosity and relative permeability of the magnetic field.

A prototype of the proposed machine was also fabricated and tested to verify its reason, and one kind of magnetic fluid was compounded and examined. The results showed that the presented machine obtained the advantage of small excited current theoretically high reliability, and robust rotor, improving power factor and high efficiency

These are the magnetics of a. the conventional machine @ μ relative and b. the proposed ferro filled gap machine @ 2μ relative.

Now please be sure to thank the IEEE and Guanbao Zeng , Yang Xiang-yu, Huajie Yin, Yunqing Pei, Shiwei Zhao, Jianghua Cao, and Luonan Qiu
School of Electric Power, South China University of Technology, Guangzhou 510640, China

There is more.

[1BOHO]

Speaking of intellectual Ideas here's an interesting one all the way from 1994. A novel polyphase multipole square-wave permanent magnet motor drive for electric vehicles. With internal and external rotor ports.
https://www.academia.edu/11532193/A_...ard=view-paper

[CHX2]

Hi,
interesting 28 phase 32 pole motor from 1975 . Magnet Motor GmbH
Remember 20 Years LRK motor , makes every helicopterpilot happy !

Happy Amps Christian

[1BOHO]

They used to be happy till they realized that the noise and distortion the single layer motor produces can be attenuated or eliminated using the new winds. 20 years ago was 2001 the polyphase square wave motor and drive was from '94 about 2 years before Lehner states they produced the first sensorless bldc . However it went I guess this would ultimately mean all modelers including Lehner and you are happy with the DC machine with solid state commutation you all expanded upon that originated in the states 1962 . This was before Lehner existed or developed any sensorless bldc drive. It is also notable in your own back slapping that today very few heli pilots are actually running the single phase sector wound LRK machine and no company offers one in OEM form unless the Lehner is indeed one. Seems to me that Ralph is who opened the world of DIY winding it to the American helicopter pilots, which makes sense as you gave it all to him first on the German nationalist site, we could not be at, that the "racist" as you now call him created. This is crazy because it begs of explanation to the question that if he's a "racist from the eastern block of Germany why you were there if you are on the other hand progressive and inclusive in your heart? My intellect tells me that either way there was a time it didn't matter to you, you simply planted the race card with me to get me on your team against him.

Anakin Skywalker, MASTER manipulator of the sabre who still hasn't shown a motor he's winding in 2021 in a motor winding thread we have the high ground so please stop. I see you think its okay to talk about old crap and start smear threads but shouldn't you explain yourself then? Don't talk about me, or others but instead explain Christians actions as he rubbed shoulders with a guy he claims now to be a racist and would still be hanging out if with him if he did not kick you off his site. Keep it real brua. I wonder if the Dentist knows how low you go for the win or a friend . I'm sure the fallout was similar to ours. Tell the truth did he kick you off because you are GOD and it drained him as you are the smartest man on the planet standing behind Lehners name? That said I'm sure then the speed plane pilots, his friends in Germany, are waiting for Lucas motoren GmbH releases that incorporate exclusively your genius. That would make them happiest I'm sure. All the American helicopter pilots know about Ralph is he winds something besides his mouth and showed them how If he is racist you can still show us the new motors and what you winding in 2021 because he certainly could be no more of one than you and his friends if you were all there hanging out there with him.

Happy Harmonics.
Hubert

[1BOHO]

Where are the out runner motor photos because from you we get err thang but that!

YT
Hugh

[1BOHO]

Hi Christian,
Just wanted to share some linear motor work I'm also always doing. Tuning an aperiodic enclosure. The theory is the air trapped in the sealed enclosure (acoustic suspension) mechanically fights back like a shock absorber what the amp want to do with the linear motor physically so the electrical impedance peaks at the linear motors resonant frequency driving down the amplifiers delivery of power on the low end. Dynaco found out in the 60's that simply cutting a hole in the enclosure and controlling the enclosures breath through a aperiodic material like R-25 (pink panther fiberglass) halved the seen impedance ( double the power ) at resonant frequency. It creates much better delivery of the low end an creates a relatively flat response that rolls of nicely down to the resonant frequency. To the ears this enclose deliver a much smoother response that the acoustic suspension system. You can create your own aperiodic mats but for this project i used dyne audio vario vents. Dyne audio was the provider of premium sound in my 07 V8 AWD Volvo. I love the car and the sound of the radio and motor. It is on the higher end of audio equipment.

As you see here the aperiodic design dampens the free air response and adds definition to the low end so it is not just a driver flopping around in free air. I left you photos of the small audio lab with a 12 volt 1000 amp optima battery and 20V 1 farad electrolytic and Rockford Fosgate PunchX 200.4 for testing the project going into the Can Am 3 wheeler. To tune it you get a baseline impedance at the audio drivers resonant frequency in a sealed counterpart. Once you have this you can implement the vario vent which can be taken apart a stuffed with more aperiodic material. Once you have reached 50% of you baseline impedance taken at the audio drivers Fs you've arrived. As usual I've included a pdf with the math you can understand better than my bad English.


From this extended 30 year background in audio I've understood for a very long time how ferrofluid acts in motor air gap and it was quite important that the viscosity not effect the speed on the linear motor. Of course it would have hurt the response if that were the case right? The ferrofluid added significant power handing to the linear motors, stabilized the coil in the gap and gave the music much more definition. It actually added to the accuracy of the cone movement versus detriment. The work has been done already years ago and I have the right answers for extending it to the rotating machines today. Hope you enjoy the change of pace. I hope you have a sound system in your home as music calms a savage beast and stimulates intellect. Ask sebastian. For Ralph perhaps he has read medical studies of its use in humans.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24457539/. Its deep so you'd have to ask him. Maybe he knows other things about the strange compound that literally came from rocket science.


One question! The liquid cooling you propose for a heli pilot using the Lehner motor will be accommodated how? It needs a radiator and a pump. It wont work like my passive technik mit ferroflüssigkeit.


YT
Hubert

[1BOHO]

[1BOHO]

Here's the vehicle Christian. Think its any fun? You see the JL audio front end and the Kicker sub in the aperiodic enclosure going into it. The small kicker mono block is amazingly strong at 600 watts rms. Incorporating the cap is a must. It seconds as the distribution block as well. We'll you tube it and send you a video. Enjoy your spring projects. We are

Regards
Hubert,

[1BOHO]

LOOK at its high dollar pressed coils which are of course are infallible in lucasreports and easy to repair when they fail.


"In the week from July 8th to 14th, 2012 the Frisian Solar Challenge took place again . For the first time, we too, represented by a SLS-60-200-1PM , took part. The solar boat of the Private Energy Solarboat Team led by Gerard van der Schaar from MG-Electronics, which we were allowed to equip with our SLS, came in second overall! It would certainly have made it to 1st place, if not .......... but let's tell the story from the beginning:

The challenge: In addition to a sprint , several daily stages over a total of 220km have to be completed be covered. All that is available for this is the energy generated by the solar cells and a (rather tight) buffer battery. The conditions for the SLS were actually ideal for both disciplines (sprint and march), as it is designed for maximum efficiency (especially in partial load situations). In addition, the weather forecast was rather mixed, so that strict budgeting with the energy available in the battery was announced. The stability of the engine at maximum power determined for the sprint appeared to be more than sufficient and the new wing concept had proven itself in test drives with unbelievable top speeds of up to 38 km / h.
Nothing could go wrong there ... actually ...

... and something should go wrong:
On the 3rd day (leading overall result!) The engine burned down! Presumably a single winding wire had come loose from the resin potting and got into the air gap. The chain reaction took its course ..... a moment later the engine was on fire! ... the tour was over!

Luck in misfortune: the SLS-60-200-1PM was not damaged! Despite the short circuit in the motor, the controller remained completely intact! The following day was planned as a rest day. This gave rise to the vague possibility of being able to start again on the 5th day, possibly with an exchanged engine. Otherwise nothing was broken ...

That same evening Gerard wanted to fly to Munich, in the hope that Lehner still has an identical engine on the shelf! With the last attempt to call Lehner (before boarding the plane to Munich), however, this hope was dashed: there is (unfortunately) no identical motor on the shelf at Lehner!........ Gerard calls me on my cell phone at 9:00 p.m. and asks if I think it is possible to rewind the engine at short notice. I have concerns that the original winding is pressed and I think it is impossible to reproduce the same winding parameters without this pressing process. Deviations in the wire size or the number of turns would no longer match the resistance and inductance values ​​of the motor stored in the SLS. The SLS can compensate for a certain deviation - certainly - but where is the limit? This would make it very difficult for the SLS to control the motor correctly ... and with the wrong parameters everything is possible, including a hardware defect; Unfortunately, we have had to repeat this experience elsewhere! ... Gerard hangs up with a disappointed sounding "good night" ... I think to myself:



... in the afternoon of the following day I learn that Gerard has found a company in the Netherlands that can rewind the motor (I still don't think it is possible to reproduce the winding identical to the original). On the 5th day I therefore expect the message that the SLS is also defective ...

... but it will turn out differently!
In disbelief I read in the result list of the 5th day that "our" boat with the starting number T83 has just arrived at the finish, only one minute behind the second placed! So the engine is running again and the SLS can handle it (whatever that may be)! On the same day I heard from Gerard that the engine was not running optimally (apparently the magnets were damaged when the engine burned down) and that full power was no longer available. But he's running!

Until the end of the Solar Challenge our boat will fight its way up to 2nd place and even win the final stage!
Where would it all have ended if that darned little wire had stayed where it belongs? ;-)"

Solarsjoernaal fan 11 july 2012 (9 min 21 sec)

Things get interesting at about the 5 min mark have a look at perfection as they have to sub contract repair.


https://youtu.be/CCIYQxWQuB0?t=310

https://www.sinusleistungssteller.de/kontakt.html

[1BOHO]

I left it open so you can explain here what happened? Did the pressed coil break on day 3? Why did they actually block information about any new out runner from you on the German forums ? I have read at least 3 threads written by others that this perfect world is not so perfect. I read this report. I read another report from Ivaylo Goronov an accomplished and very intelligent Bulgarian boater had no love for your precious motor in efficiency when they compared it Neupower which he settled on. He said he was not please at all with the quality for all the money he spent. I have that data he showed and will find the post for you. Then there was a SAW competitor reluctant to report on OSE about continual slipped bad shaft experience he's had and that has never been an issue with Neupower from the USA. He also settles upon the latter. Xnova is also a very good American brand made here in my state if im not mistaken. The American pilots here seemed to be pleased with it. I say that since that's what you see in the birds. In the <250g 2505 packages the American cobra outrunner tested out as best by long shots over BRUDER HOBBY and emaxx. You keep talking about the Americans but what really is the deal here?

On the high performance forums there I read you write to them and I quote. "The Americans are Building". Was that a rub (a vague insulting statement made to them that really was supposed to mean to them CATCH up with US) ? Did you use links and photos to rub in their face from my mentors site u met through me to do that sir?

I know you are the "superior" engineer but do you suppose when you use photos and speak on the "inferior" dark skinned American engineers current and tangible internal combustion and electrical motor work to the people you break your neck to prove something to in German high performance pilot forums that it actually highlights you are the smartest and most talented one in the room Engineers like James and "Hubertus" are precisely from the USA.

Old or new coils styles what have you
wound lately?