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Mikado V-BAR Mikado V-Stabi/V-BAR Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


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Old 03-04-2021, 01:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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No, I had the ESC set to "external governor" as I assumed that CC's intent here is to hand off governor settings to another governor, external to the ESC, in this case the Neo governor. Since you imply it should be set to Helicopter, I reset it to Helicopter, fixed end-points as the only other option on "throttle Type" in Castle-Link is to select the ESC Governor, and I don't want to do that as of course I'm still trying to use the Neo governor.

Yes, the banks change in the Neo main page and in the Receiver and Transmitter tabs, as assigned to the selected bank switch on the TX.

Yes, the ESC is programmed to make the white wire send "rpm out" pulses and the wire is connected to the "rpm" port on the Neo. Despite this it doesn't look like the Neo is reading the rpm out from the ESC, and it never has yet. Is there a way of checking the rpm output pulses on the white wire from this ESC, for example, with a multi-meter?

Yes, movement of the throttle stick corresponds to collective movement on the main Neo page and also on the Receiver and Transmitter tabs in the Neo software.

After making the above change in the ESC programming to "Helicopter":
1. I reset Neo Gov.I to VBar electric governor.
2. I turned on Gov.II and the following were observed:
.1 The motor function was able to turn the motor on and off.

.2 The motor went up to a maximum rpm but it appeared to be somewhat less than before and the magenta rpm bar didn't appear to be rising as high.

.3 The rpm (and the magenta bar) varied noticeably down and back up as I moved the throttle stick between totally forward and back, exactly as if it was following a "v" shaped throttle curve.

3. I was unable to affect rpm by moving the blue "Throttle Servo adjustment" tabs, neither with the throttle stick in the "Motor off" position nor in the "Max Throttle" position.

Question: On the Gov.II tab, why does Mikado call it a "throttle servo adjustment"? Is that a legacy translation term from the days before electric helicopters?

The "Gov." icon link at the bottom of the "Gear settings' box links to Vbar governor setting instructions that apply to a previous (obsolete?), differently configured Vbar fbl controller software. I find this quite confusing and misleading.



As a reminder, I am trying to program a basic Neo - not the pro version.
I hope the above helps to clarify the situation. Thank you for continuing to work on this.

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Old 03-04-2021, 08:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassinThru View Post
No, I had the ESC set to "external governor" as I assumed that CC's intent here is to hand off governor settings to another governor, external to the ESC, in this case the Neo governor. Since you imply it should be set to Helicopter, I reset it to Helicopter, fixed end-points as the only other option on "throttle Type" in Castle-Link is to select the ESC Governor, and I don't want to do that as of course I'm still trying to use the Neo governor.

Yes, the banks change in the Neo main page and in the Receiver and Transmitter tabs, as assigned to the selected bank switch on the TX.

Yes, the ESC is programmed to make the white wire send "rpm out" pulses and the wire is connected to the "rpm" port on the Neo. Despite this it doesn't look like the Neo is reading the rpm out from the ESC, and it never has yet. Is there a way of checking the rpm output pulses on the white wire from this ESC, for example, with a multi-meter?

Yes, movement of the throttle stick corresponds to collective movement on the main Neo page and also on the Receiver and Transmitter tabs in the Neo software.

After making the above change in the ESC programming to "Helicopter":
1. I reset Neo Gov.I to VBar electric governor.
2. I turned on Gov.II and the following were observed:Did you enable throttle control by stick? If yes then the collective stick will control the ESC directly and this is used to set endpoints or program some ESC via the stick. This should be off for normal operation.


.1 The motor function was able to turn the motor on and off.

.2 The motor went up to a maximum rpm but it appeared to be somewhat less than before and the magenta rpm bar didn't appear to be rising as high.

.3 The rpm (and the magenta bar) varied noticeably down and back up as I moved the throttle stick between totally forward and back, exactly as if it was following a "v" shaped throttle curve.

3. I was unable to affect rpm by moving the blue "Throttle Servo adjustment" tabs, neither with the throttle stick in the "Motor off" position nor in the "Max Throttle" position.

Question: On the Gov.II tab, why does Mikado call it a "throttle servo adjustment"? Is that a legacy translation term from the days before electric helicopters? It is there to set the endpoints required by some ESC for the Castle you must leave it 100-100

The "Gov." icon link at the bottom of the "Gear settings' box links to Vbar governor setting instructions that apply to a previous (obsolete?), differently configured Vbar fbl controller software. I find this quite confusing and misleading.



As a reminder, I am trying to program a basic Neo - not the pro version.
I hope the above helps to clarify the situation. Thank you for continuing to work on this.

The Castle needs to be set according to this page https://www.vstabi.info/en/node/1979 As you have Neo with Express firmware you will not be able to set bail out (15 %) on the Neo.
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Old 03-04-2021, 09:36 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Thanks Vinger for your prompt reply.
Yes, I do turn Gov.II Throttle adjustment off after using it to try to set endpoints.

Okay, in Gov. II, I will leave the ESC endpoints at 100-100 for both Motor off and Max throttle.

Interestingly, the vstabi info link in your last post #22 says to select "External Governor" in the Castle ESC. Since this conflicts with your apparent instruction to select "Helicopter linear" in Post #20, please confirm which it is supposed to be.
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Old 03-05-2021, 06:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Sorry my bad it should be External Gov and Fixed endpoints as per vstabi instructions if you are going to use the VBar governor.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Okay. External governor setting selected in CC ESC and Vbar governor has been reset, Gov.II throttle adjustment settings still at -100 and 100. Motor runs when motor run switched on stays at same rpm regardless of throttle stick movement.


A DT-2234C+ laser tachometer reads max headspeed at 2260.



Still no indication that the Neo is reading rpm. I think this is symptomatic of what's really wrong at the moment and wish someone would know and chime in on how to address it.
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
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a gov will stay at requested rpm regardless of stick movement.. it may vary a bit like you stated earlier about the v curve and moving the collective stick from neg to pos. but thats normal with the neo gov.
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassinThru View Post
Okay. External governor setting selected in CC ESC and Vbar governor has been reset, Gov.II throttle adjustment settings still at -100 and 100. Motor runs when motor run switched on stays at same rpm regardless of throttle stick movement.


A DT-2234C+ laser tachometer reads max headspeed at 2260.



Still no indication that the Neo is reading rpm. I think this is symptomatic of what's really wrong at the moment and wish someone would know and chime in on how to address it.
The banks will determine rpm and not the collective stick. If the CC was set to give rpm out on the cable and you have it correctly (check orientation) plugged in at the Neo's rpm port then it should be OK unless something in the CC is faulty.
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Old 03-06-2021, 08:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Well, I may have to live with the current status.

At least the motor spools up on the bench in every bank to a headspeed of around 1810 rpm at mid stick.

It speeds up to around 2040 at both ends of stick travel, which seems to correspond to what tonys-heli says and would be consistent with increased loading with the collective pitch.

I will do a test flight to see if I'm happy with that headspeed behaviour.

Thank you for your help.
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Old 03-08-2021, 02:07 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Hi I have read through this thread and it honestly confuses me although I use NEO with a Jeti radio system and external governor without a problem of understanding it myself so I will try explain how I understand it.

NEO "prefers" to control the throttle and all your radio needs to do is tell it if the motor must be STOP, IDLE or RUN on the transmitter page. I then setup my radio throttle channel to control the MOTOR function for the NEO. Now with our "inferior" radios we can move the throttle function from the stick to a switch so you pick a stick or switch and control it with that.

Ok so now we can tell the NEO what we want the motor to do we need to tell it we want to use external governor and make sure to click the "Reset to External" button once selected. See attached image "1 - ExternalGovernor".

If you go back to the main screen in VStabi after this you will see that you can specify "Throttle out" and "Autorotation" values for all 3 banks see image "2 - ExternalGovernor. This is the throttle percentage you want in that bank. This is the throttle % being sent to the ESC when the motor is in "RUN" or "IDLE".

I hope this helps in understanding the external gov usage as I believe I understand it but reading through the thread I must be honest I feel confused
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Old 03-08-2021, 03:03 AM   #30 (permalink)
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If you have a 200rpm variance when moving the collective stick you really have something configured wrong.

On the transmitter setup screen are you absolutely sure all the bars and channels respond correctly?

If it has got to Chippie13's post number 29 and no-one has shown where you actually set the throttle value then perhaps it is no wonder there has been confusion.
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:50 AM   #31 (permalink)
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when moving the collective stick from neg to positive, and there is a variance in headspeed, thats normal.. neo gov has somewhat of a v-curve for the gov.
its easy to see and hear on the bench, but you cant tell in the air.
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Old 03-08-2021, 08:14 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I know about the collective add and basic throttle forming the v-curve but on the bench with no load I would expect the governor ESC out to take precedence to correct without a 200 rpm overshoot and certainly not to hold the 200 rpm overshoot.
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Old 03-08-2021, 11:31 AM   #33 (permalink)
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the gov isnt really designed to run without blades, we all know that, so to me i wouldnt care what it does on the bench.. i would care how it flys.
but when i spool up all my neos on the bench, it goes right to the target rpm, so the overshoot is weird.. but im wondering how it flys.

im using full vcontrol, the op isnt.
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Old 03-08-2021, 11:33 AM   #34 (permalink)
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None of my models have had wayward head speeds on the bench either and that is with collective add set at default.

I mentioned the OP should take a very close look at the transmitter setup page again and ensure everything is correct.

Make doubly sure that bank switching and motor control is working only on switches.
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Old 03-08-2021, 05:53 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippie13 View Post
Hi I have read through this thread and it honestly confuses me although I use NEO with a Jeti radio system and external governor without a problem of understanding it myself so I will try explain how I understand it.

NEO "prefers" to control the throttle and all your radio needs to do is tell it if the motor must be STOP, IDLE or RUN on the transmitter page. I then setup my radio throttle channel to control the MOTOR function for the NEO. Now with our "inferior" radios we can move the throttle function from the stick to a switch so you pick a stick or switch and control it with that.

Ok so now we can tell the NEO what we want the motor to do we need to tell it we want to use external governor and make sure to click the "Reset to External" button once selected. See attached image "1 - ExternalGovernor".

If you go back to the main screen in VStabi after this you will see that you can specify "Throttle out" and "Autorotation" values for all 3 banks see image "2 - ExternalGovernor. This is the throttle percentage you want in that bank. This is the throttle % being sent to the ESC when the motor is in "RUN" or "IDLE".

I hope this helps in understanding the external gov usage as I believe I understand it but reading through the thread I must be honest I feel confused
Actually, I was trying to use the Neo's governor. I understand what you are saying, though Vinger told me that unless I upgrade to the Neo Pro version, I cannot use the motor autorotation function. Thank you for trying to help.
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:01 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Motor function is by TX switch only. I have double checked whether the Neo software's Transmitter page to make sure the motor and bank functions respond correctly to switch movement, and they do.
As I have stated a couple of times, the Neo software shows a different requested headspeed for each bank but it does not indicate what the current headspeed is. The ESC settings and connections to the Neo are all run by Vinger, who now suspects the ESC rpm out.
What Tonys-Heli says makes sense to me. I'm going to fly it and see what happens. If the flight characteristics are satisfactory, as far as I'm concerned, "it ain't broke"? Otherwise I will probably be looking for another fbl controller.
Thanks again.
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Old 03-20-2021, 10:35 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Well, I tried to fly it but the headspeed with blades on only went up to around 1400rpm max (according to the log), and of course the heli wobbled like crazy on the ground.

I give up. Mikado needs to clarify, in fluent English and with competence in OpenTX, how the Neo (not earlier Vbars) can work with OpenTX radios.
I'm going back to Spirit, as first recommended by Curmudgeon and Tonys-Heli, and now by me also.
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Old 03-20-2021, 10:41 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Flight test confirmed that headspeed with blades on is too low to fly.

So I give up trying to make Neo work with my OpenTX radio. Earlier Vbars I have been able to make work.
Going back to a Spirit controller.
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Old 03-21-2021, 05:44 AM   #39 (permalink)
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or buy a used original vcontrol tx.
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