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Old 05-15-2021, 11:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Just Tried VR - Graphics Were Bad

Just had the opportunity to try AccuRC in VR mode on my son's PC.

His PC is much more powerful than mine with a 2080Ti and CPU to match.

His VR headset is an Occulus Rift (the original Rift, not a Rift S).

We tried in both Occulus VR mode and Steam VR mode. Graphically they were the same though the sound only worked in Steam VR mode (but that would probably just need some tweaking).

The immersion experience is fantastic, so much more like real flying down at the field, but the graphics were poor with a 45 degree equal stripe everywhere. Not so noticeable on the scenery but really so on the helicopter. The helicopter is usable close up but as soon as it moves away it quickly becomes difficult to discern.

To give an example, I was flying the Mikado Logo 550SX and the orange part of the canopy looks like it is diagonally striped orange and blue.

Is this normal?

Anyone else see this sort of thing?

Anyone know any tweaks or fixes?

I so much want this to work, the immersion is fantastic, but I couldn't live with those graphics.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That’s par for the course. I have a GTX 1070 and a Odyssey+ Over sampling the display to 150% is something to try.
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You could try using autozoom as well were it keeps the aircraft zoomed in. Of course you lose the ground orientation.

VR has a ways to go yet. I saw a new 5K 120Hz headset coming out but that's really 2.5K per eye.
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Old 05-15-2021, 04:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thatís a shame but thanks for letting me know.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Old 05-15-2021, 11:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The original Rift has a per eye resolution of: 1080x1200
The Samsung Odyssey + is: 1440x1600
The new HP Reverb G2 is: 2160x2160

I haven’t compared any of them for graphics quality, only my experience with the Odyssey+. The graphics are lacking. I’m not sure the root cause of the problem.

It sounds like the Rift doesn’t have the resolution to fly further away than you’re use to. I don’t fly the Logo, but I fly a SAB K580 in AccuRC in the Gymnasium. At the distances within the gym, the Heli is clear enough to fly. Anything but in your face results in horrible aliasing like artifacts on the fuselage artwork and the floor...

There’s another user who just got the Reverb G2. It sounds like a step in the right direction, but the graphics quality is still not all the way there.

But, after getting over the resolution shortfall, and growing up with 8bit graphics in games, I’ve surrendered to the lack of quality in display and am very happy with the rest of the experience. VR flying has a realism that’s hard to explain, but seems to capture the real world better than a monitor or large TV.
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Old 05-16-2021, 01:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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When I upgraded from Samsung Odyssey to HP Reverb2 there was a noticeable improvement to me. Before, the screen door effect was painfully prevalent and I would never forget it's presence. Now there is no more screen door effect, text is crisper to read and overall a much more enjoyable experience.
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Old 05-16-2021, 03:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimJW View Post
The original Rift has a per eye resolution of: 1080x1200
The Samsung Odyssey + is: 1440x1600
The new HP Reverb G2 is: 2160x2160

I haven’t compared any of them for graphics quality, only my experience with the Odyssey+. The graphics are lacking. I’m not sure the root cause of the problem.

It sounds like the Rift doesn’t have the resolution to fly further away than you’re use to. I don’t fly the Logo, but I fly a SAB K580 in AccuRC in the Gymnasium. At the distances within the gym, the Heli is clear enough to fly. Anything but in your face results in horrible aliasing like artifacts on the fuselage artwork and the floor...

There’s another user who just got the Reverb G2. It sounds like a step in the right direction, but the graphics quality is still not all the way there.

But, after getting over the resolution shortfall, and growing up with 8bit graphics in games, I’ve surrendered to the lack of quality in display and am very happy with the rest of the experience. VR flying has a realism that’s hard to explain, but seems to capture the real world better than a monitor or large TV.
My son suggested this might be the case. I have to admit, that although I am very technical, I design large and complex information systems for a living, I don’t really understand how VR optics work.

For example, 1080x1200 is clearly lower resolution than the others but it can’t just be that because 1080x1200 is still a pretty high resolution, higher than many laptops you can buy so I don’t really understand why that resolution cannot present a sharp image. There must be something else to it in my opinion.

But I think that is the end of the experiment for me. Even at £300 for a Quest 2 I was questioning whether the expense was justifiable so I certainly couldn’t consider a £600 Vibe.

Besides, my graphics card possibly couldn’t handle the demands of the higher resolution and refresh rates.

Just to double check what I am seeing is normal.

Imagine you have a picket fence, the slats are a lot thinner but the width of the slats and the gaps are the same. And rather than the slats being vertical they are slanted at 45 degrees. Now if you were to paint a picture on that fence you could stand back and see the whole picture and understand what it was. But if you looked more closely you would be able to see that it was actually slats and gaps and if you were able to move the fence around, rotate it, etc. how you see the whole picture effect would start would start breaking up. That’s what I’m seeing with the helicopter in VR. The background scenery also has the slats but as that moves around less it isn’t have as bad.

But I agree 100%, the immersion was fantastic, like you are flying for real, so it is a utter shame that the graphics are just so poor for me.

Here’s a question though - why when I play VR games like Elite Dangerous and IL-2 do I not see this problem.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Old 05-16-2021, 06:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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For example, 1080x1200 is clearly lower resolution than the others but it canít just be that because 1080x1200 is still a pretty high resolution, higher than many laptops you can buy so I donít really understand why that resolution cannot present a sharp image. There must be something else to it in my opinion.
It can present a sharp image but not 2" away from your eye. if you can see your laptop screen at that distance and not have it be a big blur, you would start to see a screen door effect there too. Also, its split in half between the two eyes so its not 1080x1200 its more like 540x600 per eye (there is only one screen in there).

I might dive in if they have two 8k screens in them some day and are big enough to let me wear my regular glasses inside.
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Old 05-16-2021, 06:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
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When I upgraded from Samsung Odyssey to HP Reverb2 there was a noticeable improvement to me. Before, the screen door effect was painfully prevalent and I would never forget it's presence. Now there is no more screen door effect, text is crisper to read and overall a much more enjoyable experience.
I have only tried the Reverb G2 so I don't have anything to compare it too.
I picked the G2 because every racing sim review I watched said that currently the G2 was the headset to get as far as resolution was concerned.

Resolution at distance was the limitation that had made me hold off investing in VR until now.
My experience with the G2 is that detail close in is great. Resolution at distance deteriorates the further the heli travels from you.
However in AccuRC the detail is sufficient that I don't lose orientation of the heli really any quicker than I do when flying large circuits in 2D.

Overall the G2 provides a significant improvement to my experience with AccuRC. Its at least as good as I expected. But I do think it's something that has to be experienced to get.

If I was Nigel I would wait for reviews on the new HTC Vibe Pro. They should start rolling out in the next few weeks.
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Old 05-17-2021, 12:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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If I was Nigel I would wait for reviews on the new HTC Vibe Pro. They should start rolling out in the next few weeks.
That is going to be way more than I am prepared to spend. I started looking at the Occulus Quest 2 at £300 (or around £200 second hand) but even then I was struggling to justify the expense.

But the Vibe Pro 2 will be over £700 and will require a new graphics card to get the most out of the headset (although it states a minimum of a GTX 1060, that is slightly misleading because it goes onto say that a GTX 20 series is needed for full resolution)

And there are no guarantees that its performance will meet with my approval.

Guess I’m going to pass for now on the VR aspect.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Old 05-17-2021, 02:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Nigel I suspect your 45 degree stripes problem in Accurc VR is something unique that only you are experiencing and it might be worth the effort to try to resolve it. Since you don't see those stripes in other VR games, perhaps contact Ade Law and see if he can help troubleshoot your issue with Accurc VR.
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Old 05-17-2021, 05:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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And there are no guarantees that its performance will meet with my approval.
Yeah that's the thing. While one individual will love it, another may be disappointed. In my opinion VR tech is at the outer edge of the required performance for this particular application.
While I am loving it, I am reluctant to tell everyone to go out and get a G2 for that reason.

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Guess I’m going to pass for now on the VR aspect.
Cheers,
Nigel
No one needs a VR headset to enjoy the sim anyway.
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Old 05-23-2021, 03:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Now using a Nvidia 3080 graphics card, higher performance PC, and a Valve Index VR headsetÖ. Wow itís VR performance is amazing. For AccuRC, the sim experience is surprisingly good. I have only begun my VR life five days ago, but so far it is an incredible environment. For helicopter simulation, it is light years better than non-VR for perspective and orientation.

So many variables, and for sure the most important is how much money can you throw at VR.

Just my 3 cents. Good luck with your choices. Steve


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Old 05-24-2021, 05:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Oh that's a nice card. You're super lucky to get a 3080.

VR really is a game changer. When I first got VR I said I would not sim in 2d, but VR has actually given me a new appreciation of the sim in general. About one in every 4 times I fire up the sim I fly 2D. Its just easier.

Some thing I have not seen anyone else mention is the speed at which the helis seem to move in VR. It's also something I find hard to describe or quantify.

The helis seem to slip through the air and there is a better portrayal of speed than in 2D. I am not a good pilot and I find that the helis "get away on me" in VR much more, like they do in real life. I even get a shaky feeling like I do in real life when trying to control the heli.

I am sure this is partly down to the change in view. One criticism I have of AccuRC is that none of the camera views gel perfectly with my perception. Real Flight, which I would never recommend over AccuRC, had a better camera view for me personally. RF also seemed to portray the speed of the heli better. This is personal perception but I have seen one or two other similar comments over the years.

I would be interested to know if others get this experience of greater speed and momentum in all orientations.
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Old 05-24-2021, 09:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Nice thread, and that comment about the speed of heli's in VR gave me an idea. I've also felt that something was a little off about the speed or momentum, and I've noticed that on the photo realistic scenery the positioning of the model on the ground feels way off.

After your post I just loaded the stadium view and the motion and speed of the heli is way, way better. The only thing I don't like in this view is the camera, like yourself RealFlight is far better in this sense, I feel the AccuRC camera tries too hard to always have the model pinned totally in the centre of the screen, resulting in an unnatural feel and jarring motion of the background.

I think this has helped me finally put a finger on the last thing about AccuRC that felt off, and I think it's probably why people are preferring VR.

Whilst AccuRC captures the helicopter physics perfectly, I don't think the photo sceneries are mapped accurately enough to the simulation, resulting in the speed and momentum of the model feeling off. I also think the camera in AccuRC lacks that natural flow where it lags behind the model.

Both of those together may well be why the VR headset with motion tracking is so much better, you get a rendered background so the model speed is shown much better in relation to its environment, and the camera motion is controlled by yourself, so that improves as well.
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Old 05-25-2021, 09:53 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Very astute observations myxiplx.
I have never quite figured out why I cannot get the view to "feel" quite right, but your points make sense.
It would also be great to hear from other VR users. Do they have a similar experience.
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Old 05-25-2021, 01:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I’ve said it on multiple occasions, there is something about VR that makes the Heli feel more realistic. I suspect it would be comparable to flying on a big screen (+75”) display with auto zoom and tracking disabled.

After flying over a year in VR, I’ll say that even in spite of the poor or ‘lower quality’ graphics, it is almost impossible to go back to a traditional monitor. I purchased a 32” for ‘Work from home’ purposes and it was a disappointment compared to my Odyssey+

If I though I could actually buy a RTX3070/3080 graphics card, I’d be upgrading to something like the HP Reverb G2. But for now I’ll wait for the next generation...
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Old 05-26-2021, 05:28 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I’ve said it on multiple occasions, there is something about VR that makes the Heli feel more realistic.
I would imagine its the depth perception that you don't get in 2D and the immersion since you don't see anything else but the sim and the scene tracks your head movement? I've never used VR though so this is my imagination talking
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Old 05-26-2021, 06:58 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimJW View Post
I’ve said it on multiple occasions, there is something about VR that makes the Heli feel more realistic.
I would imagine its the depth perception that you don't get in 2D and the immersion since you don't see anything else but the sim and the scene tracks your head movement? I've never used VR though so this is my imagination talking
I’m not sure how much of its depth perception vs. just the whole head tracking thing. With one eye closed it seems to be pretty similar. ...but maybe that’s me, my vision is somewhat worse in one eye vs. the other. I’ll think / ‘look into’ it a bit more later today
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Old 05-27-2021, 08:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I would not rush out and buy a 75" screen expecting it to be similar to VR.
I stopped watching TV years ago. I bought my son a 50" TV (pretext was for me for simming).
The latency on the TV after using a 27" , 144Hz, 1 ms second response monitor was brutal.

I gave the 50" TV to the ex and bought a 65" with supposedly better latency specs. Latency was still awful after using my PC monitor.

Even forgetting the latency, the big screen did not compare to VR.
I think Fiddle is right in regard to 3D depth perception. 2D versus 3D, this will affect some more than others. Also myxiplx comments regarding the mapping of the scenery and the locking of the camera is probably close to the mark.

I do now watch Netflix .
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