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Old 05-17-2021, 08:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Lost Power - Crash (V-Bar Log Analysis)

So I had another incident with a NEO over the weekend.

Flipped to inverted, and lost power from about 30 feet up. I'm 99% sure I hit rescue (V-Control classic) at that instant and it just kept falling.

I'm posting a few logs here for some dissection and discussion to see if someone can shed some light. The last log (16:42:14) is the crash.

VBar Start -- Oxy 5 6s -- 16.05.2021 -- 14:43:01 (Good Flight)
14:43:02;1;Reset Reason: Power On
14:43:02;2;Bank 2 Loaded
14:43:02;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
14:43:03;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
14:43:08;2;Calibration Finished
14:43:17;1;Batt sel manually: PUL #1 6s5000 Old
14:44:21;2;Bank 1 Loaded
14:44:23;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
14:44:26;1;Motorswitch Motor On
14:44:39;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:45:09;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:45:19;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:46:05;2;Bank 2 Loaded
14:48:01;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:48:22;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:48:32;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:48:52;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:49:02;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:49:22;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:49:33;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:49:53;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:50:03;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:50:33;3;High Vibration Level
14:50:43;2;Raised Vibration Level
14:50:54;3;High Vibration Level
14:51:06;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
14:51:07;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
14:51:14;2;Raised Vibration Level
VBar Logfile End -- 16.05.2021 -- 14:53:09



VBar Start -- Oxy 5 6s -- 16.05.2021 -- 15:21:31 (Good flight but 5 extreme vibration level warnings)
15:21:31;1;Reset Reason: Power On
15:21:32;2;Bank 2 Loaded
15:21:32;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
15:21:33;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
15:21:35;2;Calibration Finished
15:21:50;1;Batt sel manually: PUL #2 6s5000 Old
15:22:54;2;Bank 1 Loaded
15:23:01;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
15:23:02;1;Motorswitch Motor On
15:23:16;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:23:26;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:23:37;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:23:47;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:23:57;3;High Vibration Level
15:24:07;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:24:17;3;High Vibration Level
15:24:27;4;Extreme Vibration Level
15:24:37;4;Extreme Vibration Level
15:24:48;4;Extreme Vibration Level
15:24:57;4;Extreme Vibration Level

15:25:08;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:25:18;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:25:28;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:25:38;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:25:48;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:25:58;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:26:08;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:27:09;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:27:30;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:27:40;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:27:50;3;High Vibration Level
15:28:00;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:28:02;2;Bailout Start
15:28:04;2;Bailout End
15:28:04;2;Bailout Pilot Oversteer
15:28:10;4;Extreme Vibration Level
15:28:20;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:28:30;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:28:38;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
15:28:38;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
15:28:51;3;High Vibration Level
VBar Logfile End -- 16.05.2021 -- 15:29:41



VBar Start -- Oxy 5 6s -- 16.05.2021 -- 15:44:54 (Good flight but 3 extreme vibe warnings)
15:44:54;1;Reset Reason: Power On
15:44:55;2;Bank 1 Loaded
15:44:56;2;Bank 2 Loaded
15:44:56;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
15:44:56;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
15:44:58;2;Calibration Finished
15:45:07;1;Batt sel manually: Din #1 6s5000
15:46:16;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
15:46:18;1;Motorswitch Motor On
15:46:30;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:46:38;2;Bank 2 Loaded
15:46:50;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:47:00;3;High Vibration Level
15:47:10;3;High Vibration Level
15:47:20;3;High Vibration Level
15:47:30;3;High Vibration Level
15:47:40;3;High Vibration Level
15:48:01;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:48:21;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:48:31;4;Extreme Vibration Level
15:48:41;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:48:51;3;High Vibration Level
15:49:02;3;High Vibration Level
15:49:12;3;High Vibration Level
15:49:22;3;High Vibration Level
15:49:32;4;Extreme Vibration Level
15:49:42;3;High Vibration Level
15:49:52;3;High Vibration Level
15:50:02;3;High Vibration Level
15:50:12;4;Extreme Vibration Level
15:50:23;3;High Vibration Level
15:50:33;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:50:43;3;High Vibration Level
15:50:53;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:51:03;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:51:12;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
15:51:12;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
15:51:13;2;Raised Vibration Level
15:51:23;2;Raised Vibration Level
VBar Logfile End -- 16.05.2021 -- 15:52:15



VBar Start -- Oxy 5 6s -- 16.05.2021 -- 16:06:30 (Good flight but 5 extreme vibe warnings)
16:06:30;1;Reset Reason: Power On
16:06:31;2;Bank 2 Loaded
16:06:31;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
16:06:32;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
16:06:34;2;Calibration Finished
16:06:42;1;Batt sel manually: Din #2 6s5000
16:07:31;2;Bank 1 Loaded
16:07:35;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
16:07:36;1;Motorswitch Motor On
16:07:45;2;Raised Vibration Level
16:07:55;3;High Vibration Level
16:07:56;2;Bank 2 Loaded
16:08:05;2;Raised Vibration Level
16:08:15;3;High Vibration Level
16:08:26;3;High Vibration Level
16:08:36;3;High Vibration Level
16:08:46;3;High Vibration Level
16:08:56;2;Raised Vibration Level
16:09:00;2;Bank 3 Loaded
16:09:06;3;High Vibration Level
16:09:16;4;Extreme Vibration Level
16:09:26;4;Extreme Vibration Level
16:09:36;4;Extreme Vibration Level
16:09:47;4;Extreme Vibration Level
16:09:57;4;Extreme Vibration Level

16:10:07;3;High Vibration Level
16:10:17;3;High Vibration Level
16:10:27;3;High Vibration Level
16:10:37;2;Raised Vibration Level
16:10:47;3;High Vibration Level
16:10:57;3;High Vibration Level
16:11:03;2;Bank 2 Loaded
16:11:07;2;Raised Vibration Level
16:11:18;3;High Vibration Level
16:11:28;2;Raised Vibration Level
16:11:29;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
16:11:29;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
VBar Logfile End -- 16.05.2021 -- 16:12:51



VBar Start -- Oxy 5 6s -- 16.05.2021 -- 16:42:14 (Lost power while inverted, no recovery)
16:42:14;1;Reset Reason: Power On
16:42:15;2;Bank 2 Loaded
16:42:15;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
16:42:16;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
16:42:18;2;Calibration Finished
16:42:23;1;Batt sel manually: Din #3 6s5000
16:43:38;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
16:43:39;1;Motorswitch Motor On
16:43:49;2;Raised Vibration Level
16:44:00;2;Raised Vibration Level
16:44:01;2;Bailout Start
16:44:02;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:02;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:02;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:03;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:03;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:03;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:04;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:04;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:04;4;Elevator Sensor Value out of Range
16:44:05;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:05;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
16:44:05;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:05;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:06;2;Bailout End
16:44:06;2;Bailout Pilot Oversteer
16:47:46;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
VBar Logfile End -- 16.05.2021 -- 16:55:01


I'd really appreciate it if someone can tell me what's going on. Unfortunately, this exact same thing happened 2 years ago (different NEO), and 1 year ago (another different NEO).

I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's an issue with my V-control (, or, really user error. I don't see how 3 different NEO's could produce the same reaction.

I've had the V-control for several years now, so maybe it's the culprit.

Thanks guys!
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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All your logs start strange with respect to MOTOR switch

16:42:14;1;Reset Reason: Power On
16:42:15;2;Bank 2 Loaded
16:42:15;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
16:42:16;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
16:42:18;2;Calibration Finished
16:42:23;1;Batt sel manually: Din #3 6s5000
16:43:38;1;Motorswitch Idle Bailout
16:43:39;1;Motorswitch Motor On


How do you have the MOTOR switch configured?

Raised and even extreme vibrations logged during 3D flight is normal.

No abnormalities logged before this.

16:44:01;2;Bailout Start RESCUE initiated
16:44:02;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:02;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:02;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:03;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:03;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:03;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:04;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:04;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:04;4;Elevator Sensor Value out of Range here the Vbar could not keep it stable due to low rpm
16:44:05;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:05;1;Motorswitch Motor Off
16:44:05;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:05;3;The Cyclic Ring is active
16:44:06;2;Bailout End
16:44:06;2;Bailout Pilot Oversteer
16:47:46;3;The Cyclic Ring is active

Strange that there is no log of the actual crash it seems as if the log ended abruptly due to a power loss on the Neo.

What do you use as a power source for the Neo and servos? Which governor is in use?
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have attached a pic below from when I was assigning the switches (originally set up in 2015).

The only difference is that I swapped the top right switches front to back (I think about a few weeks or months later).

Power source is Heli Jive 120+ BEC (with 2 cables to NEO)

Gov. is Jive since installed, but have used V-Bar gov. before on different heli (as is possible on a Heli Jive).
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Last edited by 3D Dave; 05-17-2021 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 05-18-2021, 01:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I had my 700 do it twice a few months ago. Power lost, vbar logs suggesting vcontrol told motor to turn off. Couldn't replicate for ages. Managed to catch it again last week but on bench. It turned out to be my "safe switch" has an intermittent fault. Was able to get it to consistently shut motor down by touching it slightly or just moving vcontrol around. Moved go another switch and hasn't happened since.
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Old 05-18-2021, 03:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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16:44:05;1;Motorswitch Motor Off

Looks like you either switched the motor off or there is a problem with the motor switch?
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Old 05-18-2021, 10:06 AM   #6 (permalink)
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From my past experiences, the neo recue function is like a tesla on auto pilot. It might work most of the time and then all of a sudden it don't. I say use at your own risk. I had a couple of bad experiences with the recue function. One cost me about $500 dollars to repair and the other one I was able to oversteer 2 foot from the ground to save it. And I'm still using these neo's to this day but will never hit the rescue again.
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Old 05-18-2021, 11:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Just got into Vbar but from the feedback here I would buy and install replacement switches.


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Old 05-18-2021, 12:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes, those switches never seemed to be the most robust.

I think I will replace the ones I use just in case.

I have been contemplating a Touch for a while, but have wanted to get a little more mileage out of my classic.
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Old 05-18-2021, 08:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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FWIW, here's a current pic with labels since the other one is old.
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Old 05-18-2021, 10:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Dave View Post
FWIW, here's a current pic with labels since the other one is old.
When you did the swop of switches 5 and 6 did you swop the plugs in to the main board or kept them where they were and only swopped their physical position?
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Old 05-18-2021, 11:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks for jogging my memory. I remember seeing a 3 position V-control switch in a parts box recently and then remembered I had to replace one.

I checked and found an invoice from 2018 when a short 3 position switch was sent no charge, so I must have had a problem with the original one.

So I know I actually had to unplug the original for the replacement.

As far as the plugs, I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think I actually swapped them in the main board... just the top right switch’s physical positions.

So now, I’m thinking I’ll replace both short switches and the long one I use for rescue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
When you did the swop of switches 5 and 6 did you swop the plugs in to the main board or kept them where they were and only swopped their physical position?
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