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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 04-05-2021, 09:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hello,

I have been doing lots of reading on motor winding and looking to give it a try with an old motor i have lying around.

Wondering where is the best place to get stator insulation and quality high temp magnet wire.


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Old 04-06-2021, 05:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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We use https://www.mcmaster.com/magnet-wire a lot where I work for random odds and ends. They probably have some Nomex paper that you can grab for some insulation. The wire is NEMA 35C, 73C, which should be more than sufficient.
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Old 04-06-2021, 12:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
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We use https://www.mcmaster.com/magnet-wire a lot where I work for random odds and ends. They probably have some Nomex paper that you can grab for some insulation. The wire is NEMA 35C, 73C, which should be more than sufficient.
Is magnet wire normally purchased in awg? Not mm?
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Old 04-06-2021, 12:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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There are size charts in both. NEMA in the US and IEC charts in Europe. AWG half sizes exist in copper wire. Not sure what variety mcmaster have but the way I sourced wires in my area was to ask and search online. Did not take long to find a great and very cheap source that sells to professionals. Less than half price of any online shop. best of luck
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Old 04-07-2021, 03:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by apostolosnt View Post
There are size charts in both. NEMA in the US and IEC charts in Europe. AWG half sizes exist in copper wire. Not sure what variety mcmaster have but the way I sourced wires in my area was to ask and search online. Did not take long to find a great and very cheap source that sells to professionals. Less than half price of any online shop. best of luck
I found a local motor shop in town, they seem to have everything,

Im planning to rewind a Xera 4530 1.5mm wire, scorpion 4225 to 500kv probably 1.4mm and possibly a rage 4219 to around 900kv.

What size nomex should i expect to use on these 5 mil? Is FG plates 1/16 too thick or should i buy 1/32?

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Old 04-07-2021, 05:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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As thin as possible to maximize space and better thermal conductivity between the iron and copper. Like redDeffern suggest aim for 200C wire at the wire haus. 1/32nd will be much easier for you to carve with the exacto or file. One day i should engrave on the CNC micro mill or 3d print some to hand out. If the enamel is in tact u dont need the nomex Just wind it with purpose and be gentle.
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Old 04-16-2021, 02:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As thin as possible to maximize space and better thermal conductivity between the iron and copper. Like redDeffern suggest aim for 200C wire at the wire haus. 1/32nd will be much easier for you to carve with the exacto or file. One day i should engrave on the CNC micro mill or 3d print some to hand out. If the enamel is in tact u dont need the nomex Just wind it with purpose and be gentle.
Is single build wire enough or heavy? Havent come across any forums that mentions it
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Old 04-16-2021, 02:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Nema 35 c should be a double heavy build. I buy my wire at Temco USA

https://temcoindustrial.com/14-awg-c...ber-gp-mr-200/

I have used 155C solderon for ease in soldering. If you think about it 155C (311F) is pretty hot for a hobby engine to operate at. If someone hits that in their normal models operation Id say that their setup is a bit hot to say the least.


The reason I truly roll with the 200C is for its higher dielectric strength. On a motor PERMANENT MAGNET MOTOR that has "regular grade" rare earth choosing 200C wire simply for its thermal rating may not be truly necessary on a motor if it has magnets fail at less. Since there's no real difference in price at our amounts it may not matter. In induction motors demagnetization isn't an issue so I honestly feel like NEMA ratings are more for industry IM machines than hobby grade permanent magnet dc's. Most hobby king brands are not sporting rare earth that could withstand 200C but some of your specialized ones like Scorpion claim magnets with higher curie temperatures.

Look at it this way with a nema rating.

Could a permanent magnet motor be NEMA rated as class H if its magnets fail at a lower temperature?

Hubert
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Old 04-16-2021, 02:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Double post sorry.
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Old 05-06-2021, 11:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I got some wire from temco but mswire wont reply back to my request for 14.5 and 15.5 magnet wire. I got 5 motors to play with.

Rage 4219 12s 600
Scorpion 4225 - to handle a lighter low-med rpm 700
Xera 4530 for a 770 12s
Scorpion 4530 for a 750 12s
Quantum 4125 - practice stator, holder is bent.
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hi Dank,
U dont need the half gauges to follow Europeans that cant wrap or show you a single new tooth anyway. Imprisoned in their archives in which we are allowed to view is only old sht forget about it...and look at the actual wire diameters not gauges and grab what's close. For us I think ull find the American Wire Gauges a little larger in fact. U did the right thing and just stay there. Always buy Temco made and manufactured in the USA! Its FUBU (for us and by us) without issues. The European winders have had for some time a secret place out there in Chinese: cyberspace somewhere doing the same winding work as we are here. Maybe Matt Gaetz knows where this secret place is for Americans that want to see this EXCLUSIVE European work currently unviewable by American eyes..
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Old 05-16-2021, 11:35 AM   #12 (permalink)
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1BOHO, can you recommend a 1000v tester under 100$, i seen some on ebay but not certain which one is a good buy.

Def cant spend 500 usd on a megger.


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Old 05-19-2021, 08:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Danker I don't use a megger because I check coil by coil now for shorts and trust my hands in single coil winding. Also a good wind should be vacuum set in thinned epoxy or proper potting solution and that's just another coat of insulation on the wires. I do not use Powercrocos serial dual layer coils so I do not have his worries. Any ebay megger should work. i wouldn't break my bank. You would enjoy an auto insulation stripper much more more in your new hobby of winding motors.


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Old 05-19-2021, 08:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BOHO View Post
Danker I don't use a megger because I check coil by coil now for shorts and trust my hands in single coil winding. Also a good wind should be vacuum set in thinned epoxy or proper potting solution and that's just another coat of insulation on the wires. I do not use Powercrocos serial dual layer coils so I do not have his worries. Any ebay megger should work. i wouldn't break my bank. You would enjoy an auto insulation stripper much more more in your new hobby of winding motors.


Regards
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Thank you Hubert.
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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You welcomed . And I want to make it clear that I have no issue with his or others winding methodology. Certainly he and they can do them all. He does very nice work and I could see why anyone would like what is aesthetically appealing to the eye and obviously it works well enough. Bert Dekker and many others here have excellent hands. Im no guru of anything. I just think independently and make my own choices. I also feel like he is very welcome to critique what I do as he has been winding and I agree to a point that that does make a difference in knowing what really possible in your hands.

Regards,
Hubert
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Old 06-19-2021, 06:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You welcomed . And I want to make it clear that I have no issue with his or others winding methodology. Certainly he and they can do them all. He does very nice work and I could see why anyone would like what is aesthetically appealing to the eye and obviously it works well enough. Bert Dekker and many others here have excellent hands. Im no guru of anything. I just think independently and make my own choices. I also feel like he is very welcome to critique what I do as he has been winding and I agree to a point that that does make a difference in knowing what really possible in your hands.

Regards,
Hubert
Yea I understand, unfourtunately As a complete noob in this field I have to go by examples and literature that is available.


I want to rewind a 10 turn delta scorpion 4225 610kv to 480-500kv.
Motor is 12 arms, 10 poles.
I want to run this motor in a 700, i realized that for the way I fly bigger motors are overkill and just adds weight. I rather have a smaller and lighter powerful motor.

Would a 8 or 9 turn Wye yield my approximate desire Kv? How do guys figure this out?
Test winds with smaller wire?
Is it true that if i terminate this motor in Wye i would get approx 360kv?
Will try to make it possible with 14 gauge

I got my temco wire, pliers and an insulation tester now.

Thank you
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Old 06-20-2021, 04:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I ordered some cheap 20awg winding wire from amazon for a test wind. Dont want to waste my temco 16awg

Will see what i can achieve in a YY configuration.
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Old 06-21-2021, 10:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Some reading of previous builds of a 4225.
6+7 1.32mm YY 540kv
7+7 1.25mm YY 485kv

6+6 1.4mm D 508 KV range.

Whats the real world advantage of YY vs D termination.

I think with 16 and 15 awg either wind could be possible.
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