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700 Class Nitro Helicopters 700 Class Nitro Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 07-08-2021, 10:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default How hot is too hot OUTSIDE?

Iíve heard from various sources that a temp sensor on a nitro engine is useless. Iíve heard from others that their nitro really puts out the power at about 212įF /100įC.
Iíve got about 5 gallons of nitro experience now, always run slobbering rich to keep things cool.
Anyway!
Got really good relative power one day when it was about 80įF outside, found the right tune (for me) and it was still quite rich.
Anyway I live in the desert. Iíve been wanting to fly, every day has been 105į-115į during the time of day I could actually fly. I donít want to kill my lipoís by flying electric in this heat so nitro is really my only option this month...

According to the experts:
1. Iím at higher altitude so- should run a bit leaner.
2. High ambient heat- so should run leaner (less o2)
3. Low relative humidity- so should run leaner

I donít want to toast my beautiful motor so I run rich always

IĎve flown at ambient 104į and power was mehÖ and the back plate was much hotter to the touch- even though I was running it rich enough to splatter nitro all over in flight.

Whoís flown in high heat and does anyone have any suggestions??

Tareq lives in Dubai. Air temps there reach 120į at times and heís out flying. Forget about the fact heís made of $$ and gets all his gear for free.

Anybody else out there flying in high temps? Do you follow the same tuning process and lean it out according to power and sound? Or do you err on the side of caution and just fly a bog machine?

Not that it should matter but in case anyone wants to know
OS 105hzr, 20% nitro, stock shim. Settings- irrelevant because of tuning but letís say theyíre close to what the manual suggests, within a few clicks on mid and maybe -4 or 5 on High
Thanks for reading the novel. There will be no sequel. Hallelujah for you
Thanks
Shane

Last edited by Sherer46; 07-08-2021 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I live in the desert also. once I have the engine tuned in 85 to 90 degree temp range I dont mess with it.

when the temps go back down to say 70 then I will retune
I run my engines rich also. if the engine is rich there is no need to retune every couple of degrees temp change

If your running it on the ragged edge of being lean trying to get every ounce of power out of it then thats a different story
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Old 07-09-2021, 09:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I live in Houston and Central Oregon, gets hot in both places. When I flew nitro's 30's 50's and 60's I set the needles and never messed with them again. Never had a temp gauge and never burnt up a engine. I was wasn't trying to squeeze every bit of power out of them either.


When my engines starting acting up, it could always be tracked back to one of two items, bad glow plug (they would last several gal of fuel) or the glow igniter to start the engine.
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Old 07-09-2021, 11:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Going from cold weather to hot weather will not hurt your engine. It won't run as well (because it will be running rich when in hot weather with the same needle settings as run during cold weather), but rich is better than lean. Lean is mean.

Going from hot weather to cold weather, on the other hand, can cause issues. Depending on how big the temperature swing is (e.g. 95 during the day to 55 at night), you might run into lean run situations. Whether or not it's enough to damage the engine, or just accelerate wear of the ring, is hard to say. I've experienced both... tuned for 90 and flew during 60 and wore the ring extremely fast. And other times I've set my needles for 80 and flew at 50 and 90 with no issues.

Properly tuned, engines will have less power in super hot weather... and more power on cold weather... but according to Tareq's videos, even in super hot weather you shouldn't have issues getting enough power out of it.
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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As a rule-of-thumb, you tune the engine for its best power while the whether is close to the "standard" for your area. Don't wait until its too hot or too cold to do your baseline tuning.

For me, being near the coast and sea level, I tuned the heli for the conditions that are typical (70f, 20% humidity and 22.5% nitro).

Make sure you tune at the maximum headspeed RPM you plan to fly with and put some heat into the motor with some high-stress maneuvers.
Start rich and the goal is to find "too lean" in a safe manner by leaning 1 or 2 clicks at a time. After the adjustment, fly it long enough to get a feel for the tune and land. Do this until you find "too lean". Then add (enrichen) 1 or 2 clicks.
Make a note of the needle settings that gave you the best flight.
That's your base-line.

When it gets hotter, I will automatically lean it by 2 clicks before the first flight or when it gets colder, enrichen by 2 clicks - but always use the baseline as the starting point.
Same for elevation. If I am flying at 2500' MSL, lean it by 2 clicks and then maybe +/-1 for the OAT.

I also use a temperature senor. It is mainly for a warning / alert and not for tuning.
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I used to fly my nitro's year round but in the middle of summer when it got over 90 degrees, there wasn't much I could do to keep the heatsoak from taking place......after about 4-5min of flying fairly aggressive 3D the motor would start to sag and I could tell the motor was struggling and getting hot. I tried richening, lowering the pitch range, lower headspeeds, etc and those did make a difference but kept me from flying the machine the way I wanted and eventually it became an exercise of diminishing returns. So it depends on what you want from the machine that will dictate a lot of that. Personally, I just decided to park my nitro's during peak summer season, only getting them out once a month or so to run a flight through them. I just decided to wait until "nitro season" and cooler running temps where I could run the machines with much less compromise to suit my flying.

Tareq flies what he wants when he wants bc he has a heli mechanic and vast resources. If he puts in a new motor, does one smack flight with it and pops it......no worries he'll just install a new one and go again that afternoon.
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Old 07-10-2021, 02:17 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default How hot is too hot OUTSIDE?

Thanks guys 🙏
Just trying to make sure itís safe. I am running ~ 1900-1950rpm on 697mm blades.Iím not super aggressive usually and can enjoy practicing finesse and precision when the power isnít there.. I mean who doesnít want to be a more accurate pilot?
Anyway, I donít have a resident expert pilot anymore in the area after Dahl moved to Germany and then Dubai.. literally nobody around me to give me any kind of nitro advice but plane guys and those engines are just different, as are buggy nitro engines.
So Iíll just sharpen my skills. Collective management and orientation mastery is what Iíll focus on. Might pick up a Mikado sensor for my Neo anyway as people rave about that 100įc sweet spot in cooler weather and the sensor is cheap enough. If anyone else flies in intense heat and can share their experience I would appreciate it. Glow plug looks brand new. Everyone wants more power from nitro but this season maybe I should just be patient and learn something new.
Happy flying
Shane
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Old 07-10-2021, 04:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Hot thin air for a nitro just kills power output.

What I found is when the engine gets hot and hotter than you want just adding fuel will not work. Shut it down, let it cool down, make the adjustment and go again.

Tuning lean to rich with a hot engine didn't work for me. Always rich to lean.
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Old 07-10-2021, 09:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default How hot is too hot OUTSIDE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy from Sandy View Post
Hot thin air for a nitro just kills power output.

What I found is when the engine gets hot and hotter than you want just adding fuel will not work. Shut it down, let it cool down, make the adjustment and go again.

Tuning lean to rich with a hot engine didn't work for me. Always rich to lean.

So could you get cooler temps and more power by leaning it out a bit?
Maybe I will get a temp sensor just to experiment.

I always start tuning the same way. Rich to lean.
Start it, let idle for 45seconds or however long it takes me to mount the canopy and walk to a safe distance. If I havenít flown for a week, I richen the needles 2-3 clicks.

If I havenít flown it for several months, I go back to factory recommendations- except the idle mixture screw. I leaned that a bit when I first got it and havenít touched it since.
All my flying spots are within in about 150ft elevation of each other. If I ever go fly at a significantly different elevation Iíll possibly need to adjust the idle screw.

Iím not great at tuning yet, I have nobody around to help me. All I know is my glow plug still looks brand new after several gallons, Iím usually overly rich, but Iím getting better. A few times Iíve nailed it where the engine sounds almost constant during tictocs and has plenty of power in pitch pumps and speed in forward flight, and my sloppy tail-down tictocs donít bog.
I would love for one of you really experienced nitro pilots to make a comprehensive tuning guide video.
Iíve watched Tim Jonesí Helifreak tuning videos and Flyiní Fish RC. For me, Flyiní Fish was the more useful of the two video sets, the part where he describes the way the motor sounds during tictocs and how the motor labors (if itís too rich) during the maneuver was the most helpful tuning tip.

Everyone says you tune ďby earĒ, which means nothing to someone little nitro experience and no other nitro pilots around to compare the sound to. The tail down tictocs gave me the best idea, listening to how the motor bogs then recovers then comparing after I adjust the needles leaner.

Sorry for the super long post. I did it so any newer nitro pilot reading this can get details.
Thanks
Shane

Last edited by Sherer46; 07-10-2021 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 07-10-2021, 10:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Some could probably create an even longer reply as to how the engine should sound.

I can only explain a happy engine as during a full power max collective climb out the exhaust note will be a continuous note that never varies no matter how high the model climbs and the exhaust trail will never diminish. There will be a range in the needle setting where this can be from somewhere rich to just right.

When the mixture is too lean the exhaust note has a raspy sound. It is not a clean continuous sound. During the climb out the power is not maintained by the engine.
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Old 09-06-2021, 03:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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OS 105HZ R Engine Setup & Run in (30 min 57 sec)
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