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Mikado V-BAR Control Mikado V-Stabi/V-BAR Control Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


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Old 07-18-2021, 10:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default VCT rescue pilot oversteer

I’m having an issue somewhere in my vbar control system. I’ve had 3 crashes on 2 different helicopters with 2 different Neos- same VCT. One heli is an oxy4 max (2crash) and the other is Kraken 580e. All crashes were from a main blade boom strike on both machines. I tried to save the logs from the 1st 2 crashes, but the “spring cleaning update” wiped everything out while I was in the process. I thought maybe static so I installed grounding system on Oxy. I took it out today and it had another strike during easy, level flight. A few seconds before I was doing lazy pirouette circuits and had gotten a little out of shape, so I activated rescue. Rescue cycle was normal. Switched out and traversed the field when heli self destructed.
I took a picture of the screen in case I loose another log. The most puzzling line is “rescue pilot oversteer” which was well after the rescue cycle completed. I’m having trust issues with this system at this point.
Since 2 separate Neos are involved the only common item is the VCT. All incidents have had aileron and elevator “sensors out of range” during event as well. Ideas?
The battery was unplugged when the canopy was ejected during the strike. Heli was dead when it hit the ground. The second rescue activation was in response to the strike which was right before the file ended.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Get the logs from the Neo's themselves via USB and the PC setup program or you can get them in the cloud at vstabi.

All your crashes are boom strikes, how loose are the blades in the blade holders? What rpm are flying at? Which governor are in use?

Rescue oversteer is logged when you tried to fly the heli while rescue was active, always gets logged after rescue has finished.

Sensor value out of range is the actual boom strike and/or crash. Your attached pic is not loading so cannot see it. Please get the full logs from the Neo's and post here.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I have uploaded the crash flight logs that I pulled off of the Neo. How far back does the Neo retain flight data? The first crash on the Oxy 4 was last November. It's only been 3-4 actual flights between the first crash and this crash, but there was a lot of on off due to setup after the rebuild (I replaced servos too). This was only the second or third flight on the Kraken since it was built. The Neo was pulled from a Goblin 570 that I never had issues with on about 15-20 flights.

The blades are snug in the grips (like I've always flown them). They can move, but it takes a little effort to do so.
RPM on the 580 with 570 blades is around 2000
RPM on the Oxy is around 2800

I pretty much sport fly with some mild 3D. I don't have the skills to push the airframes to the limit. It's probably been 5 years or so since I've dumped one with pilot error.

On the Kraken- When it did its thing it was basically some uncommanded piro flipping for a few seconds. When it quit- I was able to kill the motor and plop it in with a hard auto in to some tall grass/ soft gopher mound. The only damage appears to be from a blade strike.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Boom damage
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Antenna array on all my neos is at 90 degrees and well outside of canopy. The Neo on the Kraken is askew so I could plug in the usb....
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Not a fan of tilting the Neo like that on the kraken. That canít be good for the gyro axisís..
how often do you need the USB port?
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Old 07-20-2021, 05:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This is the first time I've plugged into the USB since I activated the Neo. normally it is mounted square with the airframe- I just pulled it loose to plug it in for the logs.
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonys-heli View Post
Not a fan of tilting the Neo like that on the kraken. That can’t be good for the gyro axis’s..
how often do you need the USB port?
Would it even fly if was twisted 45 degrees? (Not a Neo guy… is there an option for mounting it a 45 vs 0/90/180 etc)
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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From the OXY log

OK 0:00 Reset Reason: Power On
Info 0:00 Bank 2 Loaded
Info 0:00 Motor Switch operated to Idle bailout
Info 0:01 Bank 1 Loaded
Info 0:01 Motor Switch operated to OFF
Info 0:05 Calibration Finished
OK 0:15 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 0:25 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 0:35 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 0:45 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 0:55 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 1:05 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 1:15 Good Health Message (10sec)
Info 1:19 Motor Switch operated to Idle bailout
Info 1:25 Governor Mode Pitch
Info 1:25 Motor Switch operated to ON
Info 1:31 Governor Sensor no Signal
Info 1:37 Raised Vibration Level
Info 1:46 Raised Vibration Level
Info 1:54 Bank 2 Loaded
Info 1:55 Raised Vibration Level
OK 2:05 Good Health Message (10sec)
Info 2:13 Raised Vibration Level
Info 2:23 Raised Vibration Level
Info 2:32 Raised Vibration Level
Info 2:41 Raised Vibration Level
Info 2:50 Raised Vibration Level
Info 2:59 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:08 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:18 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:27 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:36 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:45 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:54 Raised Vibration Level
Info 4:04 Raised Vibration Level
OK 4:14 Good Health Message (10sec)
Info 4:22 Raised Vibration Level
Info 4:22 Rescue has been activated
Info 4:23 Rescue has been completed
Warn 4:23 Rescue has been oversteered by the Pilot
Critical 4:27 Aileron Sensor Value out of Range
Info 4:27 Rescue has been activated

There seems to be no governor active as it has no valid rpm signal. Which governor do you use?

From the Kraken Log

OK 0:00 Reset Reason: Power On
Info 0:00 Bank 2 Loaded
Info 0:00 Motor Switch operated to OFF
Info 0:00 Motor Switch operated to Idle bailout
Info 0:01 Bank 1 Loaded
Info 0:05 Calibration Finished
OK 0:15 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 0:25 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 0:35 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 0:45 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 0:55 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 1:05 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 1:15 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 1:25 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 1:35 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 1:45 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 1:55 Good Health Message (10sec)
Info 2:03 Motor Switch operated to Idle bailout
Info 2:06 Governor Mode Pitch
Info 2:06 Motor Switch operated to ON
Info 2:14 Raised Vibration Level
Info 2:20 Bank 2 Loaded
OK 2:30 Good Health Message (10sec)
Info 2:32 Raised Vibration Level
OK 2:42 Good Health Message (10sec)
Info 2:50 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:00 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:09 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:18 Raised Vibration Level
Info 3:21 Rescue has been activated
Info 3:22 Rescue has been completed
Info 3:23 Bank 1 Loaded
Info 3:24 Governor OFF
Info 3:24 Motor Switch operated to OFF
Warn 3:27 High Vibration Level
Warn 3:28 RC Input Packet lost
Critical 3:28 Aileron Sensor Value out of Range
Critical 3:28 Elevator Sensor Value out of Range
Warn 3:29 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 3:30 RC Input Packet lost
Critical 3:30 RC Failsafe has been activated
Warn 3:31 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 3:32 RC Input Packet lost
Critical 3:32 RC Failsafe has been activated
Critical 3:36 Extreme Vibration Level
Warn 3:41 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 3:42 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 3:43 RC Input Packet lost
Critical 3:43 RC Failsafe has been activated

OK 3:53 Good Health Message (10sec)
Warn 3:59 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 4:00 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 4:01 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 4:02 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 4:03 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 4:05 RC Input Packet lost
Critical 4:05 RC Failsafe has been activated
Warn 4:06 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 4:07 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 4:09 RC Input Packet lost
Warn 4:10 RC Input Packet lost
OK 4:20 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 4:30 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 4:40 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 4:50 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 5:00 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 5:10 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 5:20 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 5:30 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 5:40 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 5:50 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 6:00 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 6:10 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 6:20 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 6:30 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 6:40 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 6:50 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 7:00 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 7:10 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 7:20 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 7:30 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 7:40 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 7:50 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 8:00 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 8:10 Good Health Message (10sec)
OK 8:20 Good Health Message (10sec)

It seems to me that the Kraken lost signal and then FAILSAFE was activated and then crashed. Again here were some governor anomalies. Please check antennae status and again explain which governor you are using?
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Old 07-21-2021, 11:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Vinger,
I'm using the vbar governor on both models. Both models have Hobbywing v4 ESCs. Something that I didn't think of before was I was using a Castle ESC on the Goblin 570. Shortly before I moved over to the Kraken 580, my CC ESC went up in smoke (on the bench, not in flight). I had very few, if any flights on the HW ESC in the 570. I have always had a HW on the Oxy 4.
I had seen the loss of gov signal in the log, but I thought it was intermittent.

At around the 3:18 on the 580 log rescue was activated. That was in response to my loss of control with the model (while it was piro flipping on its own). The heli did not recover on its own with rescue, so I cut the throttle and regained enough control to set it up for an auto. I didn't have enough headseed left to do a good auto though.
3:27 High vibration was most likely when it "landed". I was about 400-500 yards away from where the heli ended up so the terrain and orientation of the model could have obscured the signal.

Thanks for your time in looking into this. FWW- I have ordered Scorpion Tribunis ESC for both models since they integrate better with the vbar and could be an issue.
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Old 07-26-2021, 01:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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What do you mean when you said you switched out of rescue. Rescue should be on a momentary switch there is no “switch out of rescue “. The neo has to reset after rescue. This is probably the reason your getting oversteer after rescue says complete. It’s not resetting but staying active. Rescue is supposed to be used on toggle, a spring loaded switch rescue begins, you don’t do anything until it says rescue ended. Until it says rescue ended you really don’t have control your just fighting rescue.
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