Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 550 Class Electric Helicopters


550 Class Electric Helicopters 550 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-18-2014, 02:33 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xokia View Post
I don't know what the 130 has as it's insensitive current limit. I can't imagine it's much higher then the 120HV that I was using. I was constantly bumping into current protection with the KDE 1100. Which I don't like running with no protection at all. I think if your exceeding the insensitive setting you should go to the next size up. Maybe you feel differently that's your choice.
I used to run insensitive on a 50A Edge with the 450XF (3S), but had a few "minties moments" with the limiting. I discussed it with CC and was told that they recommend turning it off for helicopters due to their high transient current spikes. Like you, that made me nervous (only thing worse than a loss of power mid-flight is an on-board fire followed by complete loss of power in-flight), but I was told that over-currents aren't so much the issue as the over-temps that result from them - and the over temp protection is still active.

So with much trepidation I disabled it - and it's been fine (inc pulling 183A on a 50A ESC). Having just said that, I still prefer the 75A Edge Lite with the 450XF when running 3S (the word "impunity" comes to mind!).

Quote:
730mx is a great motor IMO the problem it lacks gearing options. It needs a 17T pinion which no one currently makes. I also think the thing would be a beast on 7S with the 16T pinion. I don't have a charger that will charge 7S so I never tried it. On 6S I think the 730mx gives the best balance between power/performance and flight time JMO.
14T pinion
I agree, but unfortunately, a "great motor" with out the correct gear still adds up to a fail IMO. Had mine up today - governed at 2500 6S 5000mAH pack - testing a camera ... and got 9:20 for goodness sake (just pottering around). Got a feeling I'll be heading the 600XF-1100 route, even if it does mean using a couple of 3S 3300 mAH packs to power it (it's not like it can't handle the extra weight - and it would probably actually benefit the CoG).
jshqSeGH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-18-2014, 02:37 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Default

Out of interest, has anyone tried swinging 600mm blades with the 730MX under 16/112T gearing?

With a gruntier ESC I would have thought that it should hang together quite nicely???
jshqSeGH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2014, 09:31 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,565
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Default

I do wonder, if the Talon isn't up to the 730mx then why would align sell them with the kit, why not just go to the 120 from the off, and charge the extra ?

wouldn't align have done extensive testing using the talon and the 730mx ?? I'm sure I have seen some crazy 3d with the 550 kit ...

As for comparing the 550's agility to that of a 450 seems a bit daft , the 450 is going to be somewhat more agile , but then a mcpx bl will feel more agile than the 450 , a 700 will feel more locked in , in respect to the 550 ....

just my thoughts .. lol...
__________________
Dx9, Blade Nano ,Trex 450pro ,Trex 550L , Trex 700
aevans692 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2014, 06:39 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aevans692 View Post
I do wonder, if the Talon isn't up to the 730mx then why would align sell them with the kit, why not just go to the 120 from the off, and charge the extra ?
Because charging the extra puts their product at a price point disadvantage to competing products (same reason they use plastic for things like battery trays, anti-rotation brackets, tail servo mounts, cyclic servo retainers).

Quote:
wouldn't align have done extensive testing using the talon and the 730mx ?? I'm sure I have seen some crazy 3d with the 550 kit ...
I'm sure that they did.

In any design the designer has to make decisions and "draw a line in the sand" with regards to performance -v- price (ie "what gives the best bang for the buck").

The Talon 90 is rated at 90A continuous - the 730MX is rated to 115A continuous, which appears to make the ESC somewhat the weak link in the chain, but without logging, it also makes it hard to know how close to the limit one is taking it. That's like having a V8 engine in your car but only a "V6" carb.

It doesn't stop the heli doing a lot of things, but it does reduce the safety margin for others. I've pulled over 180A on a 450XF doing power loops in a 450; if I did the same thing with my 550 that would probably equate to about 720A - and there's no way in hell I'm going to do that to a 90A ESC.

So in terms of "best bang for bucks" then yes - the Talon 90 was probably a good choice (especially considering it's great BEC performance), but like many folks, I like to upgrade parts and performance - and in my opinion - that ESC is one of the things that needs upgrading.

Quote:
As for comparing the 550's agility to that of a 450 seems a bit daft , the 450 is going to be somewhat more agile , but then a mcpx bl will feel more agile than the 450 , a 700 will feel more locked in , in respect to the 550 ....
I'm not talking agility so much as power-to-weight ratio. My 450s have had the stock 450W motor replaced by a 700W one - making it extremely responsive. Prior to me doing that it felt a lot like my 550 does now. In contrast, doing the equivalent upgrade to a 550 produces performance like this ...

KDE Direct 550 Series - 600XF-530 Brushless Motor Extreme Flight Testing (4 min 51 sec)
jshqSeGH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2014, 09:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Default

I flew my 550 pro today. I do not have a governor setup though, I have a 120hv castle, thunder power 45c battery and ar7200bx. I have my radio set to 95 throttle in the curve. I can not do extreme 3d but I did do some full collective dives and pitch up full, and vice versa, I got it to bog nice. On the castle log I only ever pulled 90 amps peak. Take what I'm saying loosely cause I'm no expert its quite possible something is wrong in my esc setup. All I know is its not a breathtaking or terrifiying at the controls.
jsbach#1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 01:12 AM   #26 (permalink)
Closed Account
 

Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbach#1 View Post
I flew my 550 pro today. I do not have a governor setup though, I have a 120hv castle, thunder power 45c battery and ar7200bx. I have my radio set to 95 throttle in the curve. I can not do extreme 3d but I did do some full collective dives and pitch up full, and vice versa, I got it to bog nice. On the castle log I only ever pulled 90 amps peak. Take what I'm saying loosely cause I'm no expert its quite possible something is wrong in my esc setup. All I know is its not a breathtaking or terrifiying at the controls.
90 amp peaks and bogging defiantly something wrong with your setup. If could pull 150 amps on the 730mx.
xokia is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 03:08 AM   #27 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Default Trex 550 Motor 730 MX Question

I might add that there's "bogging" and then there's BOGGING. I cocked up collective management during a FFF roll today and bogged it so badly I think the RPM dropped to about 1/2 for an agonising few seconds.

No idea what current it was pulling at the time, but I'd be guessing way more than 90. Similar bogs on 450 class bird have pulled the 6S equivalent of 90 amps - so I wouldn't be surprised if it were close to double it.
jshqSeGH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 12:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Default

Ya I'm not sure at all if I've set it up correctly. I have not done anything to "calibrate" the edge 120hv esc to the ar7200bx. Just opened up castle link, set start up to power to high, and checked the motor settings were timing 5 and the other number is 12.

It seems like the head speed is nice and high when go into my stunt 2 setup at 93/88/85/88/93 something like that for the throttle curve. Like she's not sounding casual at all. But you agressively push the sticks around and, spin some tail, its kinda moaning away like running out of breath. I'm also watching the 12s and 14s big boys absolutely ripping around in their goblin speeds and the like so of course a puny little 550 pro wont impress but nevertheless I am NOT seeing anything over 90 amps in my log.

Can my battery be the problem ? If it was sitting around too long before I bought it ? Or do I need to set something up in my 120hv / ar7200bx that I haven't yet.
jsbach#1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 02:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Default Trex 550 Motor 730 MX Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbach#1 View Post

Can my battery be the problem ? If it was sitting around too long before I bought it ? Or do I need to set something up in my 120hv / ar7200bx that I haven't yet.

Could well be - I use 60C batteries (Revolectrix Diamond).
jshqSeGH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 05:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
Closed Account
 

Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbach#1 View Post
Can my battery be the problem ? If it was sitting around too long before I bought it ? Or do I need to set something up in my 120hv / ar7200bx that I haven't yet.
My 500 is 12S love it. The 730mx is power hungry you need to have a good battery for it to perform well. C rating is meaningless though. Thunder power doesn't have the greatest reputation lately. Most of their batteries have been underperformers and they are still getting business on their prior good name. I ran 65C rated batteries when I had the 730mx I also ran gov mode.

You need to set your end points on that ESC so the ESC knows what full power is.
xokia is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-25-2014, 10:36 AM   #31 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Default

Update - I set the throttle endpoints on my radio to the 120HV and I flew two times, checked log and this time was peaking at 110 amps where as before it was 90. I also braved enough to start playing with inverted, my gosh these bigger birds are sooo easy to control compared to micros. Flight times are getting good, I come down at 4:30 and the hyperion is saying 38% remaining on the 6s.

Next thing to do is figure out the governor !! I wanna hear the thing humming at a steady rpms. More deciphering tonight.
jsbach#1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-26-2014, 04:50 PM   #32 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Default Trex 550 Motor 730 MX Question

For what it's worth, I'm now running my 730MX from a CC Edge Lite 130, and it hasn't made any difference.

I really don't know what Align was thinking, but in my opinion, the KV of that motor is just too low; it would probably be fine if they made a 17T MOD 1 helical pinion to replace the stock 16T one so that there was more governor overhead available to govern at 2500 RPM, but they don't - so as far as I'm concerned that motor is history. I'll be upgrading to a KDE 600XF-1100 with 14T pinion ASAP.
jshqSeGH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-26-2014, 07:45 PM   #33 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Default

Update !! : I just had a revelation, the battery ! I bought a brand new Gens Ace 65C 4400 mah, charged up to 95% and did a break in hover, nice and gentle but I couldn't help myself, I idled up and pitched up once with some authority , WOW ! big difference. Keep in mind I'm a beginner, and as a beginner now I feel intimidated the way it just shot up without that tranquilizing bog. What the heck I thought thunder power was be all and end all of batteries, now im learning about the importance of C. 45C vs 65C. Day and night in my case.
jsbach#1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-26-2014, 08:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbach#1 View Post
Update !! : I just had a revelation, the battery ! I bought a brand new Gens Ace 65C 4400 mah, charged up to 95% and did a break in hover, nice and gentle but I couldn't help myself, I idled up and pitched up once with some authority , WOW ! big difference. Keep in mind I'm a beginner, and as a beginner now I feel intimidated the way it just shot up without that tranquilizing bog. What the heck I thought thunder power was be all and end all of batteries, now im learning about the importance of C. 45C vs 65C. Day and night in my case.
We all know the "C Rating" as being a measure of the relative current that we can draw from a battery, but what many don't seem to realise is that this in-turn equates to voltage drop under load.

Or put another way, if you draw the same current out of 2 identical capacity batteries, one 40C and one 60C (assuming that their ratings are accurate) then you'd expect less of a voltage drop across the 60C battery. And because power is proportional to the product of voltage & current, having a higher effective voltage means more power.

In my testing with ThunderPower batteries I've found them to be just fine performance wise; the biggest issue that I have with them is that their performance is on-par with others, but their price is higher - so not always the best value for money in my opinion (I've found Revolextrix to be the best value for money so far) (out-performed ThunderPower and at 1/2 the price). In this case though it's probably not so much as the under-performing battery being "ThunderPower" as it is the battery being only 40C.

Personally I never use anything less than 60C -> 70C - and I still manage to trigger low-voltage alerts with some maneuvers!
jshqSeGH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2014, 12:52 PM   #35 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,011
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xokia View Post
12kHz 0 degrees timing
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbach#1 View Post
Ya I'm not sure at all if I've set it up correctly. I have not done anything to "calibrate" the edge 120hv esc to the ar7200bx. Just opened up castle link, set start up to power to high, and checked the motor settings were timing 5 and the other number is 12.
Where do you find what the timing should be? Or even some information on what it does?
__________________
MCX2, 120SR, Blade 4503D w/Robird G31, Trex 500 w/RC Aerodyne A109 Scale Fuselage, 2X Trex 500's, Trex 550 w/ BD3SX, 2X Goblin 570's, 2X Goblin 700's w/BD3SX DX6i, DX9, Phoenix Sim, and a credit card. HF member #178,534, AMA
danfornow1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-27-2014, 10:37 AM   #36 (permalink)
Closed Account
 

Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbach#1 View Post
Update !! : I just had a revelation, the battery ! I bought a brand new Gens Ace 65C 4400 mah, charged up to 95% and did a break in hover, nice and gentle but I couldn't help myself, I idled up and pitched up once with some authority , WOW ! big difference. Keep in mind I'm a beginner, and as a beginner now I feel intimidated the way it just shot up without that tranquilizing bog. What the heck I thought thunder power was be all and end all of batteries, now im learning about the importance of C. 45C vs 65C. Day and night in my case.
I did mention a while back that the 730mx is a battery hog and really likes 65C batteries. Also mentioned that Thunder power no longer has a good reputation they have been struggling to produce quality batteries. You can go on some other forums and find some people who have done some pretty decent testing and TP show up very low on the list. Good to hear you got it running the way you like. Personally I would not go to the KDE 1100. I had it in my heli for literally 1 day and then sold it. You will need at least a 160 amp ESC for the KDE. Even then you will get things fairly hot that motor likes to pull gobs of current.

I went with the 12S 600XF KDE motor and really like flying my 550 now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danfornow1 View Post
Where do you find what the timing should be? Or even some information on what it does?
When you advance the timing forward you get a little more head speed but lose torque. You will also heat up your ESC a little quicker. You can play with timing, most of my motors I run 0 degrees timing I haven't really found a benefit in running them advanced forward. I buy the motor and gearing for the head speed I want to begin with. The 730mx is more of a torque motor so it likes no timing advance. You can play with it and maybe you will find you like it different then me.
xokia is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2021, 03:48 AM   #37 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xokia View Post
I did mention a while back that the 730mx is a battery hog and really likes 65C batteries. Also mentioned that Thunder power no longer has a good reputation they have been struggling to produce quality batteries. You can go on some other forums and find some people who have done some pretty decent testing and TP show up very low on the list. Good to hear you got it running the way you like. Personally I would not go to the KDE 1100. I had it in my heli for literally 1 day and then sold it. You will need at least a 160 amp ESC for the KDE. Even then you will get things fairly hot that motor likes to pull gobs of current.

I went with the 12S 600XF KDE motor and really like flying my 550 now.

When you advance the timing forward you get a little more head speed but lose torque. You will also heat up your ESC a little quicker. You can play with timing, most of my motors I run 0 degrees timing I haven't really found a benefit in running them advanced forward. I buy the motor and gearing for the head speed I want to begin with. The 730mx is more of a torque motor so it likes no timing advance. You can play with it and maybe you will find you like it different then me.
Will it work with HW 120A esc with 0 degree timing (Also using 730MX 960kv motor)
__________________
Own :
KDS Agile A5, ALZRC Devil 380
n SAB Kraken 580(610)
zhnme523 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2021, 01:48 PM   #38 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 142
 

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Howell, Mi
Default

You do know this is a six year old post.
baba_yaga is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-28-2021, 12:58 PM   #39 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bristol, UK
Default

Just to squeeze a bit more life out of this zombie thread - I'm just programming my stock RCE-BL100A ESC to use with the BL730MX 960KV motor, and I can't find the timing or pwm data for it anywhere. 12KHz sounds about right - but 0 degrees timing? The ESC comes pre-programmed with 15 degrees - which also sounds a bit strange.

What settings are being used for a stock 550X setup out there?
__________________
The little things in life, i.e. Nano CPX, Trex 150DFC, Trex 150X, Mini Twister Sport (it was a Heliboy Atom when I bought it!),Trex 550X (as yet unflown)
Sloucher is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1