Graupner mz24pro, GR16L Integration with 3Digi & Unisense-E Telemetry sensor

[KC8CYF]

Graupner Integration Issues with Unisense telemetry sensor.

My setup:
Tx - mz24 Pro
Rx - GR16L
FBL - 3digi integrated to Graupner as a EAM device
Telemetry - Unisense-E setup as GAM device

According to the Unisense manual... only General Air Module integration will give mAh telemetry... However, I do not receive mAh, instead I receive "Fuel" in milliliter units... appears to count up just like mAh reading I was used to in my Futaba 14sg with Unisense telemetry.

Anyone else experience this or using the UnisenseE with their Graupner radio?

I've tried setting the Unisense for HOTT EAM and ESC modes... but those mode do not output the mAh telemetry. Did not try the Vario mode yet.

The 3digi is setup as an EAM right now... did have it a GAM with the Unisense also set as GAM... the Graupner did not like that at all... could not parse the data correctly. Each device must have a unique module defined... i.e. GAM, EAM, ESC or other.


Thanks,
Greg

[TheBum]

The General Module display is actually two displays (see attached). Per the MZ-24 Pro manual, page 227:

To change between both displays tap on one of the graphs in the display.

[KC8CYF]

Originally Posted by TheBum

The General Module display is actually two displays (see attached). Per the MZ-24 Pro manual, page 227:

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the reply, I get that part of the radio operation... the display works as detailed in the manual. You can also navigate into the Base Menu and see the "live" data feed under the setting & data view sub-menu.

If you use GAM mode on the Unisense the displays are automatically changed in the mz24 to the screen with gas gauge for fuel and as EAM mode the display shows mAh, actual current, actual voltage, screen #2 shows your individual battery packs and cell voltages for a Graupner EAM device.

In the EAM mode I get the pack voltage and current/actual Amps drawn but no mAh consumed. I only seem to get mAh when in the GAM mode on the Unisense. So I believe the problem lies either with the Unisense output for that mode or the Graupner interpretation of the data i.e. where the input data gets mapped to. Might be an issue with mz24Pro firmware... not mapping the data to the correct registers like the MC/Mx series radios shown in the Unisense manual.

Are you using the UnisenseE?

Starting to wonder if I should just use the Graupner Electric Air Module in lieu of the Unisense. It's as big as my ESC. The Unisense is small and works very well... at least with Futaba and Jeti anyway.

Thanks,
Greg

[TheBum]

How long have you had the Unisens-E? It might need a firmware update. You should be able to get the current version from the Settings & Data View screens.

[KC8CYF]

It's a nice touch that the Graupner can change the Unisense configuration settings using the radio integration... do not need to disconnect the telemetry and plug in the USB adapter to make a change. Works just like the 3digi integration.

So just for grins, I changed the Unisense to Hott GAM from the mz24Pro under the Base/ Setting & Data View sub-menu. Restarted the power system and get the GAM telemetry screens with the fuel gauge showing the milliliters increasing as my heli sits with servos humming along in static static state (normal / throttle hold).

I'll keep playing until I find something that works.

Also, I even tried removing the 3digi from the integration loop as well... just pulled the communication plug from the Y adapter in the GR16L telemetry port. No change, no issue with 3digi either... I have the 3digi setup as a "GPS" Hott device to avoid confusion with the GAM and EAM modes.

[TheBum]

Originally Posted by KC8CYF

So just for grins, I changed the Unisense to Hott GAM from the mz24Pro under the Base/ Setting & Data View sub-menu. Restarted the power system and get the GAM telemetry screens with the fuel gauge showing the milliliters increasing as my heli sits with servos humming along in static static state (normal / throttle hold).

Did you tap on one of the graphs as I mentioned in my first reply? The display should change to one that has a mAh meter on it.

[KC8CYF]

Originally Posted by TheBum

How long have you had the Unisens-E? It might need a firmware update. You should be able to get the current version from the Settings & Data View screens.

The Unisense-E is new. The firmware is 1.13 and current as of today. The software did update the sensor when I first plugged in. It was 1.12 when it left Germany.

Version 1.13 addresses an issue with Jeti only... at least according the change notes.

See attached screen snip.

[TheBum]

To answer your earlier question, I'm currently only using a Unisens-E on my multirotors. I bought the one that has XT60 connectors on it and plug it inline with the battery.

For all my regular helis, I'm running Graupner ESCs, so I get telemetry from them. For the OPTO ESCs on my 700 and 770, I could run a Unisens-E to capture total current draw including external BEC, but BEC current is such a small percentage that it's hardly worth it.

[KC8CYF]

Originally Posted by TheBum

Did you tap on one of the graphs as I mentioned in my first reply? The display should change to one that has a mAh meter on it.

Yes. I did tap the screen to toggle between the telemetry data as shown in the manual and my post.

The data for mAh consumed just simply does not get mapped to the EAM or ESC Hott mode. I do get the mAh consumed if I setup as the GAM mode on the Unisense... but the data comes shows on the "Fuel" gauge that indicates "ml" fuel consumption.

I will email GraupnerUSA and SmModellBau regarding this. Maybe they can review it.

In the mean time I'm still

[KC8CYF]

Originally Posted by TheBum

To answer your earlier question, I'm currently only using a Unisens-E on my multirotors. I bought the one that has XT60 connectors on it and plug it inline with the battery.

For all my regular helis, I'm running Graupner ESCs, so I get telemetry from them. For the OPTO ESCs on my 700 and 770, I could run a Unisens-E to capture total current draw including external BEC, but BEC current is such a small percentage that it's hardly worth it.

Lucky you! I'm stuck with HW100v3 for ESC...

That's probably where the issues are resolved with mAh since Graupner supports it's own native hardware very well... I'm sure the Graupner EAM module will work fine as well.

I'll bet that there was a change either with SM Unisense or Graupner as some point that lost the mAh translation for the mz series radios.

Thanks for your help Alan... Nice to see others in the Graupner forum.

[KC8CYF]

Here's my email to sm-modellbau.de

Subject: Unisense-E does not send mAh consumed to Graupner mz24 Pro in the Hott Electric Air Module mode.

Equipment I have:
Unisense-E version 1.13 firmware, 2.00 hardware, serial number 34404 (software SM Unisense-E Tool 1.0.8)
Graupner mz24 Pro with GR-16L receiver. mz24 firmware is v2.021, Gr-16L firmware is v6.38

Issue:
I receive mAh reference only in the Hott GAM mode and it shows on the mz24 Pro as a "Fuel" gauge in milliliter (ml) units on the telemetry menu. The telemetry register for mAh consumed reads zero (0) constantly while the Fuel gauge counts UP in the mAh consumed units.

Note: I've tried using the Hott EAM and Hott ESC modes as well. Those modes do not show milli-amp hour (mAh) consumed at all. I only see battery voltage and current "actual" Amps.

Not sure if this a Graupner translation (correct mapping of memory area) problem or Unisense-E issue. The Unisense worked correct on my Futaba 14sg.



....

We'll see what happens in a few days. I'll post their response.

[KC8CYF]

Stephan response from SM Modellbau this morning:

"I think your UniSens-E measures current in the wrong direction and
therefore shows negative amps and mAh. Negative values can not be
displayed on the HoTT system and so you read 0 mAh.
Please change setting "Stromrichtung" (=current flow direction) in the
UniSens-E."


My response:

I should have mentioned that I tried both normal and reverse current flow already.

The sensor is installed correct for normal current flow. The Unisense is set for normal.

When reverse is selected I get 0 feedback for both fuel/gas gauge and 0 actually current gauges.

When I select reverse current flow, I get 0 mAh for both fuel and mAh. In Normal flow I get the mAh feedback I would expect but only in the GAM mode on the fuel gauge for gas engine and not the mAh capacity used gauge. Always 0 feedback for EAM and ESC modes on the mAh regardless of normal or reverse current flow. Also, when the sensor is reverse flow you do not get the real time actual current flow, amps.

I think the problem is with the Graupner. The radio firmware has the mAh mapped incorrectly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KC8CYF]

OK... now we are working perfect. As usual, it was my error. The current offset parameter "Stromoffset" in the Unisense configuration fooled me while only bench testing without spooling up the motor... The unit was constantly nullifying the low current draw of the servos / electronics only. Had to set the "Stromoffset" to "nie" (Never).

I finally had a chance to setup outside and spool up to find the Graupner telemtry + UnisenseE are working correct. Not sure why I did not notice this issue on the first UnisenseE I had setup last year on another model and Futaba radio... that setup has the "Stromoffset" set to "immer" (always).

Also, I assumed that the mAh would always increase with just the electronics and servos running. I misunderstood this operation / technical translation perhaps in the manual... but the mAh only increases under main motor load.

Many thanks for patience and support from SM Modellbau (Stephan).

Copy of my UnisenseE parameters attached. EAM and GAM modes work fine with mAh feedback in both modes.

[TheBum]

Glad you got it sorted. I learned something.

However, I question the logic of setting the offset to "always" by default. If the goal is to fly until you've used a certain amount of mAh, non-drive-train electronics figure into that total. If you're just looking at instantaneous current to warn you of going over the limit you've set, then I suppose it makes sense.

[KC8CYF]

I agree with your comment Alan. My limited testing and experience with my other model, Fusion 50... last flown on 14sg with the "Stromoffset" set at "immer" (always)... supports your comment.

On my next flight, I will test with the stromoffset set at "always"

I think the result will be good mAh feedback with the motor and electronic load added.

I'll post my results later.

[KC8CYF]

If I understand the English translation of the Unisense manual correctly... the Stromoffset "current offset" is calculated only at initial power up. So you can enable it (default) by setting to "immer" for always calculate the offset... disable by setting to "nie" for never adding the offset.

Couple more flights now and still do not get any mAh change while just sitting with throttle hold and servos holding position or working while stirring the sticks. I see the actual amps at 0.8 amps the entire time... several minutes of idle time and no mAh change. But as soon as I spool up the mAh meter comes to life and counts up accurately within 50 mAh or so of what I put back into the packs after recharging post flight.


Alan which Graupner telemetry interface do you use for your Unisense? EAM or GAM? I don't get a motor rpm telemetry readback... the EAM "speed" is air speed only. Not sure if motor rpm is in GAM or not... will check tomorrow. I would like the try Hobbywing Gov Elf since I want to fly 6s and 12s without changing anything on the ESC.

And going a bit off topic... how do you like the Graupner ESC's. Can you get mAh from the ESC without additional telemetry modules?

Thanks,
Greg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Raz0rSh4rp]

I have a Graupner ESC in use with a 3Digi using the MZ-24Pro and a GR-16L.

The ESC is hit and miss for me, and here is why:


Pros-
Great BEC
mah telemetry with no extra sensors
Rpm telemetry with no extra sensors
Great usa support

Cons-
seems no active freewheel
No rpm lead for external gov
Poor internal gov
Manual is not very clear

[TheBum]

The Graupner telemetry ESCs *do* actively freewheel.

As for the gov, it's supposedly much improved with version 2.x of the firmware. I always use external govs with a HW phase sensor, so I can't vouch for the improvement.

[KC8CYF]

Originally Posted by Raz0rSh4rp

I have a Graupner ESC in use with a 3Digi using the MZ-24Pro and a GR-16L.

The ESC is hit and miss for me, and here is why:


Pros-
Great BEC
mah telemetry with no extra sensors
Rpm telemetry with no extra sensors
Great usa support


This alone makes it a logical choice for smaller heli's lacking space or "budget" for extra telemetry sensors or going with a third party logging device.


Cons-
seems no active freewheel
No rpm lead for external gov
Poor internal gov
Manual is not very clear

A this point I'm OK with the Cons... One could always use the cheap Hobbywing Phase Sensor to get the RPM for external gov.

Thanks Saje! I might PM you with some mz24Pro setup questions...