Fixed Pitch 450 VOL 2…Featuring the Flybarless FP450

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

A little info on the feasibility of the 450 direct drive motor project.The fc motor is 250g. I removed the motor and main gear that is 82g.so the heli will be 168g heavier than stock.In the pic I used a black angel ms upside down because i need the ms below the tail drive gear to hook the motor to.It has to be longer for the fc head to be in the right place,so custom ms..no biggie. the motor will bolt to the bottom plate,just have to drill 2 holes.As it is in the pic with 3s batt it is just a little nose heavy.there is no gyro or tail servo at this point so the cg should be right on with them installed.Ok here is my problem. The hk esc i am using will only work with 4s. 4s batt is way to heavy.I have spent about $250.00 on 4 esc's trying to find one that will work with the fc motor.So i need someone to confirm an esc that will work with the fc motor on 3s.When I have that info I will continue on with the project...:-]

Looking good so far JC, heck 168g isn’t too bad at all. Flying weight wise, it still looks to be about 300 to 325 lighter than the Funcopter…that’s about the weight of my 450 fiber glass md500 fuselage (around 305g) by itself, so it’s definitely a huge weigh saving over the Funcopter and also I think a serious advantage. Brother I am all in on this project as I truly want to own a nice DD 450. I totally understand you situation with the ESC Bro and unfortunately I have no experience with the FC V1 or V2 motor, so really have no idea what ESC to use with a 3S setup. With that said, I still want to help out as much as I can. When TowerHobby gets the V2 upgrade kit back in stock (they say January), I will order the kit and a few escs to try out on 3S. I know with the help from ATC, Onguard and the rest of the guys here we’ll figure this out Bro.

Again I’m way behind the curve ball on this setup, but I started to do some research on useable esc this morning.

I looked up the Funcopter with the V2 upgrades and here’s the link and content spec.
http://www.worldhobbies.com/product_...3001_item.html

The FUNCOPTER are factory-assembled,
with the brushless motor installed.

The following additional items are required for this version:

• 3 x Tiny-S servos
• 1 x MULTIcont BL-37 II speed controller
• 1 x MULTIgyro 300P gyro.
• Radio gear (4 channel)

Recommended flight battery
Li-Batt eco 3/1-2000
or
Li-Batt eco 3/1-3000
Specification:
Fuselage length: 855 mm
Rotor diameter: approx. 770 mm
All-up weight: approx. 1250 g

So in this link, it said the Funcopter requires this esc (MULTIcont BL-37 II speed controller). So I looked up this speed controller. Again link and specs.
http://www.worldhobbies.com/product_...ef_cat_id=BPDB


SPECIFICATIONS:

• Length: 1.7" (43mm)
• Width: 0.98" (25mm)
• Height: 0.31" (8mm)
• Weight: 0.81oz (12g)
• Cell Count: 5-16 (2-4 LiPo)
• Battery Voltage: 6-19.2V
• Continuous Current: Max 37A
• Internal Resistance: 0.045Ohm
• Pulse Frequency: 11kHz
• BEC Voltage: 5V
• BEC Current: Max 1.5A

So the specs for this esc says it will run on 2-4S Lipo and operates on a pulse frequency of 11kHz. The Funcopter spec definitely says the V2 motor runs on 3S and uses this ESC, so like you and ATC pointed out to me a while ago, the key must be the pulse frequency.

I also looked up the V1 Funcopter at bphobbies and the site list the Castle Creations Thunderbird-36 Brushless Speed Controller as the ESC to use.
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...0&pid=B1670681

The spec on this esc says it will only be good on 3S and has a kHz of 13.

I will keep researching, but so far it looks like a esc that operates on a pulse frequency between 11-13kHz should (done know for sure) work with the V2 motor on 3S. It will be a month or so before I have anything in hand, so hopefully by then you will get/have a confirmation on a esc that works with the motor on 3S.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by OnGuard

The #16 HD Keycam is out got one ordered.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DVR-808...item2a1721820c

Thanks for the link to the #16 Bro, it was perfect timing. Last night my wife asked me if there was something small/somewhat cheap that I might want, as she would like to get me a few more small things to put in my stocking. I told her about the #16 and even though it wont be here for Christmas she said if thats what you want and order it last night…sweetness!!!

[johnnycat500]

Thanks HH for the info. All the places that sell fc parts, I have never seen the esc listed. If you know of a place I can buy one I will order one.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Hey ATC, I did a quick mock up last night using the stripe led lighting on the FC blades.
I did order the nano-tech batteries and will give this setup a try when they come. For now just wanted to test fit the lights on the blades and see how bright they would be in the dark on 2S. In the pictures, I don’t have the backing paper removed from the light stripe, just a little off each end of the stripe to secure them to the blade for the test. Looks like they will be plenty bright…Yeah Baby!!!!

[AtTheCross]

Sorry guys, went to check the esc last nite and the label pulled away with the Velcro, I don't know the make of it

Will check the programming card to see if there's info on that

Hey HH will that strip run on 1s??

[johnnycat500]

Can't find a place that has thunderbird 36 ( tb-36 ) in stock. Anyone know?

[HELIHANKSTER]

Amazon should be able to hook you up with the CC ThunderBird esc
http://www.amazon.com/Castle-Creatio.../dp/B000MXE3EO

Again Bro, I have no idea if it will work out or not. Just going off what I’ve read so far. Hopefully ATC can get a name off his programming card.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by AtTheCross

Sorry guys, went to check the esc last nite and the label pulled away with the Velcro, I don't know the make of it

Will check the programming card to see if there's info on that

Hey HH will that strip run on 1s??

Nope, unfortunately the stripe lights I have will only work on 2s and 3s. After checking out the pictures of your nite blades, that was the first thing I checked. Even though the spec on the lights say only 2s to 3s, I still tried to hook up a 1s battery…it was a no go. The lights wouldn’t even come on. The 2s batteries I listed and ordered are pretty small. From your pictures it looks like your blades are using mcp x batteries, which I think weigh about 7.5g, so that’s only 1g lighter than the 2s nano-techs I have coming.

[AtTheCross]

duh, just remembered, i have a stock FC esc, only good on 3s will txt you jc500

[HELIHANKSTER]

Well told ya JC I was committed to a DD 450 build. R/C planet has the V2 upgrade kit in stock and yes I just pulled the trigger.

[johnnycat500]

Originally Posted by HELIHANKSTER

Well told ya JC I was committed to a DD 450 build. R/C planet has the V2 upgrade kit in stock and yes I just pulled the trigger.

Cool that you found a place that has it in stock. I called multiplex to try to buy the fc esc and they do not sell them by there self. They said it was based on thunderbird 36.Most places are out of stock.Found one place that had them in stock so I ordered it. The info says not recommended for heli use,but multiplex says the fc esc is a tb-36 ?? This is the last esc I will buy to see if it works with the fc motor...LOL

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

Cool that you found a place that has it in stock. I called multiplex to try to buy the fc esc and they do not sell them by there self. They said it was based on thunderbird 36.Most places are out of stock.Found one place that had them in stock so I ordered it. The info says not recommended for heli use,but multiplex says the fc esc is a tb-36 ?? This is the last esc I will buy to see if it works with the fc motor...LOL

Was going to wait for the kit to come back in stock at TH, but did some more looking around and found it at RCP for the same price. Figured if I had the V2 motor in hand sooner I might be able to help out more. Sounds like some solid information from Multiplex, it’s good to know their esc is definitely base off/is the CC thunder bird. That’s good enough for me to pull the trigger on a thunderbird esc. On a side note JC, I think we are helping each other right into the poor house. lol! I did some more looking around and also found a few places that had the tb-36 in stock at a reasonable price, but then I got to thinking. Why not go with the tb-54 if I could find one at a decent price. I first compared the specifications between the two and everything is the same other than the higher amps. The weight difference between the two is only 14g, so figured I would rather have the extra security the added 18amps would give me over the weigh. With my mind set on the tb-54, the hunt was on. I finally scored one from toddsmodels with shipping for $41.46, that almost what I was going to pay for the tb-36...sweet!

Looking at the spec I see no reason why the tb-36 wouldn’t be okay for heli use, specially a 4ch 2 servo fixed pitch helicopter. It has a soft start feature and self calibrating endpoints and I think you can even change the low voltage protection if you have the castle link system. Maybe it’s the auto shut down when signal is lost that why it’s not recommended for helicopters. If the auto shut down feature is not gradual, it just cuts complete power to motor, I’m thinking that might not be to good for a helicopter…dropping like rock comes to mind. Lol! If this is how the auto shut down works, still no biggy…just don’t loose signal. hehehe.

Brother I got a good feeling about the CC tb esc and if for some reason it doesn’t work on 3s, I will find one that will and send it to you free of charge. THE DD 450 PROJECT MUST MOVE FORWARD AT ALL COST! lololol

[johnnycat500]

If the tb-36 had auto shut down why would multiplex use that kind of esc for their heli. I wish it would say why they think it's not for heli use.It's got to be right if multiplex told me so....I hope LOL I will talk to ATC today and if I can get his fc esc to try out should be ready tomorrow. Using a trex450 ms shaft.Will drill another hole about 1/4 inch up to move the tail gear so I have something to mount the adapter on.

If this does work I will order the black angel parts so I can start on the custom frame with dd tail.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Most esc have auto shut down when signal is lost, it’s not a bad thing. You don’t want to loose signal and have your helicopter keep flying to the next county under power. I was just throwing hard cutoff out there as a reason why it wasn’t recommended for use with helicopters. I agree with you, if it says its not recommended for helicopters, it would sure be nice if they explained why. Bro like you said, multiplex is saying it will work, so I have faith. So cool of ATC to let you try out his fc esc so you can continue on with the build. You lucky dog, I bet with your fancy machines and mad skills it’s super easy for you to drill new holes in main shafts. Me and my old drill press…not so easy. my drill press---------> <--------------me LOL!

[johnnycat500]

The key to drill holes in ms is using a center drill first then a drill bit to drill the hole The center drill will not walk on you. I just had to put a hk 401b on the 500 fp because my real 401 started to act up. It is still dark here so when the sun comes up I will try it out.After i get back I will make the 4mm/5mm adapter for the dd 450 and get the show started.


Darn just went outside and it is really windy :-[[

[HELIHANKSTER]

Center drill…yes this will make my life easier, you da man JC! I’m not ashamed to admit that I didn’t know what a center drill bit was and had to google it to find out. I’m a amateur modder with primitive tools. I mainly drill holes in 3 to 5mm shafts, so what size center drill bit would you recommend. Bummer about the 401, do you think it’s the firmware or something might have came loose inside the case. Well since I’m all the way over from you on the east coast, the sun has been up for a couple hours. You know you could make the adapter now and start the show and fly later. Lolol! Just kidding brother

[johnnycat500]

I use a drill press with a cheap harbor freight cross vice. I put the ms in the vice and get the drill bit that will go thru the stock hole in the ms. I tighten the ms with the drill thru the hole. Now you know you have center of the ms. Then put in the center drill and start the hole. Put the bit in and drill the hole. Some of the 500 ms I have tried to drill will not work because the ms is hardened steel. You can get 1/8 or 1/4 shaft center drills, I use both.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Great info and tips Bro! Trust me, you don’t want me to tell you my jerry rig method for drilling shafts. And yeah, I know to stay away from case hardened shafts…lost a whole set of bit’s a couple years ago figuring that one out. I have a Harbor Freight right in town, soooo just might have to find a excuse to go into town later today.

[johnnycat500]

These mod is real easy. Here is a pic of the motor mounted . To do this whole mod you need to drill a hole in the main shaft ,2 holes in the bottom plate, use the adapter and get some 4mm stock to go thru the motor. Sure hope it works good HH. The only thing I am concerned about is the tail keeping up with the hot rod motor. Going to make the adapter now.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Yeah Baby it’s looking good Bro! I’m sure hoping it works good to…trust me…I’m sweating over this big time. Cause if it doesn’t perform well, my dreams of having a bad ass total DD 450 might come to a crashing halt. I need this to work so you will go to phase 2 (custom frame and direct drive tail)

Yeah been thinking the same thing about the tail holding. The DD main motor on my bee is super torqueey (ß made that word up) on punch outs and the tail really has a hard time keeping up, so I can only imagine how hard this motor is going to be on the tail. The King 2 9T tail pulley mod is definitely an option to increase the tail rotation ratio.