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Old 01-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Has anyone used a Watt meter on this?

Hi, wondering if anyone has used a watt meter on theirs yet, curious to know what amp draw your getting at max throttle. Thanks
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Not really much point as the power used depends on the amount of pitch and what you do. Heck at 0 degrees power draw would only be a couple of amps.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not really much point as the power used depends on the amount of pitch and what you do. Heck at 0 degrees power draw would only be a couple of amps.
Right and that is why I posted the question, I am figuring out what battery I want to use, I know I will get an 1800mah, but with the lower C rating I could get a battery a bit cheaper. I was planning on flying it around 2500-2700 rpm and only fly sport for now. So If I was only drawing around say 40amps on average I could get away with a 30 C batt or even 25 if I wanted to push it a bit closer. Figuring at 40a / 1.8mah= 22C. I was also looking at the Align 2100mah/20c for $12.50 hell of a deal, but at 40amp draw I would be right at the 20c mark, and no room for cushion so to speak.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Could a person use full negative pitch and run at full throttle or desired throttle that might give a fairly close amp draw rating???? Just guessing havent tried this
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Maybe Im just talking crazy or being cheap, sorry on a budget, and I have been flying airplanes since I was nine years old, and it is easy to run a wattmeter on a plane since you can hold it at WOT and that is how I use to gauge my C rating for them.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think you are going a bit too far with this. The lowest I would suggest is 25c if you are just sport flying. But if you are trying to be on a budget, the better battery with a higher C rating will be less taxed when flying and will theoretically last longer.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
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C ratings are hardly something you need to pay attention to. There is NO standard for C ratings. So one brand's 30C pack might be the same as another brand'S 45C pack. etc. just pick up something 35C or better and call it a day if you can afford a 45C pack, might as well. Get one - it can only help.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks guys that is probably what I will do, I seen those packs on sale and thats what sparked my thoughts/ questions, no biggie, I will probably get the 35c at least as was mentioned the bigger the C rating, the longer the battery will last in the long run. I will probably get the Pulse as it seems most are happy with them, Just having a little fun with it. Take care
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BgSkyFlyr View Post
Thanks guys that is probably what I will do, I seen those packs on sale and thats what sparked my thoughts/ questions, no biggie, I will probably get the 35c at least as was mentioned the bigger the C rating, the longer the battery will last in the long run. I will probably get the Pulse as it seems most are happy with them, Just having a little fun with it. Take care
First off I need to say that there is a standard in C rating,it is times the battery capacity... 2100mah = 2.1ah = 2.1 x 30C = 63A

If budget brands mark their packs to be higher in rating than they actually are doesn't mean there is no standard, it means that some cheat their customers...

I think Align packs falls into this category without being really cheap... but then, something that I think blows D could be someone else good value and the only difference could be a couple of hundred RPM...
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I ended up finding a GForce 6s 1500/40c for $27 shipped from Value hobby, did a little research and seems quite a few people were satisfied with them, mah maybe a little low but being how I dont fly 3D yet they may work well for me. Wont be flying for a while pretty cold here highs around 0 and lows to -20!! When I do get the chance I will post my results. Take care
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Livan75 View Post
First off I need to say that there is a standard in C rating,it is times the battery capacity... 2100mah = 2.1ah = 2.1 x 30C = 63A

If budget brands mark their packs to be higher in rating than they actually are doesn't mean there is no standard, it means that some cheat their customers...

I think Align packs falls into this category without being really cheap... but then, something that I think blows D could be someone else good value and the only difference could be a couple of hundred RPM...
No, that describes what a C is, but there is no standard for how C ratings are given. Different manufacturers measure differently and give use their own standards to figure out C ratings for the packs. Meaning different manufacturers' batteries will have different C and there's nothing anyone can say.

Don't get it? Ok. There's standards for how voltage is measured. Take a multimeter and measure it. There's standards for how capacity is given. Discharge from 4.20V to 3.7V and the capacity taken out is the pack's rated capacity. But there's no universal standard for calculating C ratings.

Also, it's not just "cheaper" brands that would put a higher C label on a pack that is lower according to another manufacturer's standard. I've had Thunder Power (VERY expensive) 55C packs puff and get hotter in just a few flights than a Pulse 35C of the same size. Then again I've had bad experiences every time I've tried TP.

Even then it's not one brand cheating out over another in C ratings. It's just a difference in the number they arrive at after doing their own calculations. One brand might get 30 for a given pack, another brand might get 35 or 40 for same same pack.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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No, that describes what a C is, but there is no standard for how C ratings are given. Different manufacturers measure differently and give use their own standards to figure out C ratings for the packs. Meaning different manufacturers' batteries will have different C and there's nothing anyone can say.

Don't get it? Ok. There's standards for how voltage is measured. Take a multimeter and measure it. There's standards for how capacity is given. Discharge from 4.20V to 3.7V and the capacity taken out is the pack's rated capacity. But there's no universal standard for calculating C ratings.

Also, it's not just "cheaper" brands that would put a higher C label on a pack that is lower according to another manufacturer's standard. I've had Thunder Power (VERY expensive) 55C packs puff and get hotter in just a few flights than a Pulse 35C of the same size. Then again I've had bad experiences every time I've tried TP.

Even then it's not one brand cheating out over another in C ratings. It's just a difference in the number they arrive at after doing their own calculations. One brand might get 30 for a given pack, another brand might get 35 or 40 for same same pack.

Its still not a different standard...

35C is always going to mean 35 times the capacity no matter what brand you ask, even if the actual result will vary between brands...(not disagreeing with that)

I haven't used Thunder Power so I cant answer for the quality, but I can agree that its far from only cheap stuff that suffers with bad quality. In the same way you can find cheap packs that delivers. I'm just certain more cheap packs exaggerates since name brands have a reputation to maintain...
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Its still not a different standard...

35C is always going to mean 35 times the capacity no matter what brand you ask, even if the actual result will vary between brands...(not disagreeing with that)

I haven't used Thunder Power so I cant answer for the quality, but I can agree that its far from only cheap stuff that suffers with bad quality. In the same way you can find cheap packs that delivers. I'm just certain more cheap packs exaggerates since name brands have a reputation to maintain...
I think you are missing part of it.
There is no C rating standard because: you are correct, 35C is always understood to mean 35 times capacity. But 35 times capacity WHAT?
35 times capacity power draw and the battery heats up only 10 degrees? 20 degrees? 100 Degrees? Manages to not explode? Doesn't puff? Battery can do this 10 times without puffing? 20 times? 100 times?
35 times capacity for one minute without exploding? For the entire discharge?
35 times capacity on *average* without heating up? Or held at 35C the whole time?

Since there is no standard to answer these questions, it is left up to the manufacturer to define it.
So, they aren't necessarily lying or exaggerating, they are simply answering the question differently. A cheap company may mean "without puffing for 10 flights" but a reputable company may mean "and will still last 100 cycles".
And in truth, if you don't push the battery to its limits it will last a LOT longer.

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Old 01-12-2017, 11:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Yup... I don't know what else I can do to explain it
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm sorry but I wasn't disagreeing fully but now I have to say.... morons...

http://web.mit.edu/evt/summary_batte...ifications.pdf

You guys know better than MIT?

Or why not read Revoelectrix definition of C rating... (a very known brand)

http://www.revolectrix.com/tech_data...y_C_Rating.htm

Saying something isnt a standard just because some exaggerates their capacity is... i dont know... like saying there is no way to calculate Wattage because Chinese motors claims twice what they deliver...
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think you are missing part of it.
There is no C rating standard because: you are correct, 35C is always understood to mean 35 times capacity. But 35 times capacity WHAT?
Of the total capacity of the battery...

1C = the AMP required to discharge the pack in 1 hour

Total capacity is marked in amp-hours 2200mah / 1000 = 2.2ah

2.2 amps for one hour... 1C = 2.2A

Then the rating is how much the vendor PROMISES the pack can deliver for. If they claim that their pack can do 35C, they say that this pack is rated to run 35x2.2A at a continuous rate...

If they cant, its up to the customers to judge them if they puff up after a few flights... or start sagging and head speed drops under load...

Just to be clear!

You are absolutely right about the fact that you cant trust C rating blindly since its a claim and you can exaggerate claims... there is more to batteries than just C rating like internal resistance that will affect how hot they run and that will change over time...
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Usually I wouldn't take time to respond to someone who calls people trying to help "morons", but I have a bit of dead time here, so I will make one more attempt to help you see that we are actually in agreement here.

We agree on these this:
The definition of C rating. Thank you for providing two links to other sites that repeat what we already said about this definition - that a battery can deliver C-coefficient times battery capacity "continuously". So to give a specific example, a 1Ah battery (1000 milliamp hour) with a 60C rating must be able to deliver 60 amps of current "continuously".

Here is what we are trying to point out: There is no standard defined for how to measure whether a battery meets the above criteria in a meaningful way.
We all know a lipo cannot be fully discharged without damage. Does it need to provide 60 amps for an 80% discharge? 75% discharge? 90% discharge? And how about repeatability? Does it need to deliver the 60 amps for just one battery cycle? 10 cycles? 20 cycles? How many cycles at what level of discharge? And how hot does the battery get in doing it? This is not defined, hence every company has to make their own decision on what a battery performance needs to be in terms of level of discharge and repeatability, in order to earn the 60C "rating", even though ALL of them meet the definition.

In the real world, we find that some batteries may be able to deliver 60 amps for only 15 seconds at a time, but last for many hundreds of cycles. Since no heli pilot will draw maximum current continuously, these would be great batteries. Another battery might deliver 60 amps for 80% discharge when new, but after 30 cycles can only deliver 50 amps maximum. These batteries both meet the definition of 60C when new, but are very different.
Some companies have tried to deal with the frustration this ambiguity causes by adding a "burst" rating - specifying additional information about how much current the battery can provide for short "bursts" of time, in addition to the C rating. But again, there is no standard for measuring a burst or what that really means either.

A reputable company would of course consider the real-world use case and strive for customer satisfaction and product value. If I were running QA for one of these companies I would get actual telemetry from aggressive flights and test cycle the batteries through aggressive real world scenarios.

Anyway, at this point I'm done with the discussion. If you still think there is a "standard" for how companies define a 60C battery, great! You can sleep well not having to worry about it, and knowing you are smarter than us "morons"
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I did the math (assuming I did it correctly) and based on my flying style, I'm pulling about 9amps on average....

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Old 01-14-2017, 01:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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We seem to agree that when a battery vendor says you should set your charger to 1C when you charge this 1000mah pack you set it to 1A...

And also that when a vendor states 60C they are claiming that MAX continuous discharge rate is 60 times that...

That is the standard definition of C-Rating, the batteries max continuous discharge rate in relation to its capacity...

I also agree that its not a quality stamp, that why I keep calling it claims, its just what the vendor states it can deliver...

The moron part is because I do agree with you but you keep mixing in other stuff that have all to do with how it performs and nothing to do with if there is a standard definition of C-Rating or not...

You have other stuff that affects how good a battery is like internal resistance (measurable). If it is high, its going to run hotter, loose performance and shorter lifespan. IR depends on quality, age and how you treat them...

So a new fresh good pack with low IR delivers while you get voltage drops and sagging from high IR (at the same time more heat and hydrogen gas)...

So do you understand what I mean when I say there is a standard in what C rating means but it does not define how good it is?
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Old 01-14-2017, 05:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BgSkyFlyr View Post
I ended up finding a GForce 6s 1500/40c for $27 shipped from Value hobby, did a little research and seems quite a few people were satisfied with them, mah maybe a little low but being how I dont fly 3D yet they may work well for me. Wont be flying for a while pretty cold here highs around 0 and lows to -20!! When I do get the chance I will post my results. Take care
I just maiden mine today, doing sport flying, flipping, rolling, rainbows,... at 3000rpm, my average current draw is around 14A with peaks up to ~40A.
I am running a PULSE 6S 1250mah pack with Hobbywing 60A V4 and VBar governor.

Here are the logs from the Mikado UI Sensor:
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