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Old 11-09-2008, 09:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ErichF View Post
All you need to do to vary your Delta offset is to shorten or lengthen the ball on the pitch arm. Going farther from or closer to the spindle will only affect your pitch range and rate.

Good point, you are correct, I knew I was going into overload...
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:27 AM   #22
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Default Delta ???

I bought an FAI head for my Stratus. I am at the point in building the head, of making a decision about delta(positive or negative). Since I am fairly new, I don't fully understand the effects of delta, any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 11-19-2008, 09:42 AM   #23
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I bought an FAI head for my Stratus. I am at the point in building the head, of making a decision about delta(positive or negative). Since I am fairly new, I don't fully understand the effects of delta, any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Butch
Here you go. Here is tips from Cliff Hiatt. He is the person that designed the FAI head.

http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com/...head_setup.asp

The setup is explained a little better in the instructions that come with the rotor head also.

David
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:41 AM   #24
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David set mine up a few years back when I didn't understand any of it. I also used some of the resource information he gave me after the fact and it made sense the more experience I got. David, do you happen to know where a downloadable manual is?
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:59 PM   #25
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How are things working out for you guys and your models? We have a nice long weekend coming up to try some new stuff.

Have fun out there!
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:18 PM   #26
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I plan on burning some electrons this weekend... and trying the Class 1 hovering maneuvers....I'm sure that this will be a humbling experience
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:27 PM   #27
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How are things working out for you guys and your models? We have a nice long weekend coming up to try some new stuff.

Have fun out there!
Well, as you know I've had a couple of setbacks with regard to the flybar ratio mod I was trying to do to my 600e. Looks like I will have to drop back to the Align setting. I was really excited about that one, but I guess there is only so much you can do with that particular head design.

I did accomplish some good things though. With the UK swash, the new washout arms, and careful building my head unit is very lash free. So lash free, that I did that little rubber band trick I saw on Scott Gray's machine. It does work nicely, but only worth doing with the more presice head, else its a moot point. I found some really elastic bands at Staples, so as it goes through the rage of motion it doesn't start adding an external force.

I did flip the grips over to positive delta, so I'm hoping that will help me on the windy days.

I also went with slightly smaller servo arms, not as small as originally planned, but smaller than what I had, all my end points are at 100%, and I think my rate for low mode is aroun 80%, a pretty good improvement over what I had.

I worked on my rudder and gyro. I used a servo wheel and got the measurements right until at 115 limit A and limit B in the 611 I had full throw in both directions, no bind.

What I got the most was setup, I did a little better this time all around. I used some custom mixes in the 10C to make sure the swash is level throughout the entire range of motion. I bubbled the whole heli and the swash, and the swash bubble does not move at all all the way through the range. I had used this before, but this time, its even better. I can go full negative to full positive collective and the swash sits perfectly still, I about went blind trying to see the bubble move...These custom mixes work great, I have 40 flights with them and never seen anything but good come from it.

Now its time to work on me, I hope to maintain it well and get a lot of flying in. I've got 40 flights now, I want to hit 300 before I really do anything else. I hope to save for the next level heli in the meantime. I do like the Sylphides, but would be happy with a Blitz. Time will only tell. I think I've learned a lot that will help me pic out my next heli when the time is right. I will go with a Clabier like head design, no more heads with the mixer arms attached to the side of the seesaw, I want the next one to have them up on the grip arm. That type of design is sooooo much better for tuning.

Here are some pics of my setup..









Left Blade



Right Blade



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Old 11-27-2008, 09:22 AM   #28
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I plan on burning some electrons this weekend... and trying the Class 1 hovering maneuvers....I'm sure that this will be a humbling experience
If you have the CNC see-saw and grips on your 550 you can get to a 1.0 delta. Move the balls to the outer holes on the see-saw and to the inner hole on the mixing arm. Also, flip the washers on the feathering shaft to get the softest dampening. If you have the lightweight paddles on, put on the stock paddles back on. I'm also running 550 Rotortech A Blades, which are pretty heavy. You will be amazed at how stable the 550 hovers after doing all this. I also re-geared for 1850 headspeed @ 100% flat. (15/60/20/61 w/ the Gaui 1100kV/1500W motor) 7:00 flying time on 3700mAh batts.

I don't plan to do any contest flying, at least not for now. The reason for setting the heli up this way is that I have a buyer who is in the learning stage and wants a stable heli. Reading this and getting a better understanding of how all this interacts has helped a bunch.

Thanks!
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:29 AM   #29
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thanks Mike...still using the plastic seesaw... but yeah... it's pretty stable at lower head speeds.. mine is set for about 1900 flat out... CNC head parts is next on the list.. still using the stock paddles too..good to know about the head adjustments..
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:57 AM   #30
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No problem. I got to test fly it after making allthe changes and it was set the Tx down and walk away steady. (Not that I would really do that.)
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:53 AM   #31
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hey does anybody know if there are any good books / sites around that explain all this stuff around delta/flybars...?
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:04 PM   #32
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Thanks for this thread. learned a lot..
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Old 09-14-2011, 02:19 PM   #33
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Lots of crickets in this section...... but dam good write up ErichF, much appreciated!

I'm interested in FAI/F3C and have been really practicing mostly really smooth FAI type flying with my Fusion 50. Since it has lots of head options, I finally started playing with everything. Last night I re-set my head to a setting that isn’t in the manual... trying for a more stable setup in hover but still has the pitch range I need for some more aggressive flying.

I ended up with +- 11.5 collective, right now I am at 8 degrees cyclic though I will probably reduce the mix this weekend. All airfoils are rotortech... so mains are 615 slant tip, tails are 95mm and the paddles (with weights) are the only ones they make for .50 sized helis.
Everything was within .2 grams, but I went and balanced everything anyway, I ended up with a .02g difference on the mains and perfect on paddles and tail... so that's good.

All I did mechanically was reduce the paddle response to the slower setting, and re-adjusted all the links to retain 90 in the appropriate locations. That, paddle weights, better balance and some D/R and expo, and I improved the hover dramatically, while still retaining the pitch range I wanted. I did try one of the more stable factory settings (as per the manual) and loved the feel in hover, but I wanted more pitch, so I switched to advanced. Now this 'hybrid' setup hovers like the more stable 'factory' setting, but at the flip of a switch I get my aggressive feel back. Next I'm going to play with the mixing ratios a bit, but first onto Delta.

I understand how it works, but I am not sure if I could adjust it on this head... or more accurately put, I don’t understand how to adjust it on this head... Maybe I am not seeing something. Any pointers? I could post up a picture later when I get home from work.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:06 AM   #34
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Thanks Vico, nice to see that some folks are still reading my ramblings on occasion

If you could post a pic of the head setup, making sure to detail your mixing arm linkage connections and options, I can get some context on the setup. Then I'm sure we can offer some input on what might be workable.

It's sometimes a trade off for available pitch range and flybar ratio, depending on the mixer design.
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Old 09-15-2011, 09:10 AM   #35
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Erich, thanx for the reply and yep, I'm one of the few and far between's that interested in flybars and FAI flying... as well as 3D. Your rambling is appreciated, and I could listen and learn all day!

Anyway, I looked and did some thinking and I think I figured it out... as you said, on this head its seems like a tradeoff between pitch-range and FB ratio... Still, I will post a picture later.

I am going to fly it with this setup for 2 weeks and tweak the D/R and expo in the radio for my hover mode. Yesterday I was practicing with a stiff 15mph wind and it was doing well, no positive stability (seems like it has neutral or maybe slightly positive delta right now)... but it felt good, felt more like the 'middle' factory setting in hover but with more authority upstairs. After 2 weeks I will tweak it a little bit, but I want to get used to the setup in various conditions before I make any further decisions on head setup.

I am gonna spend the winter honing my F3C setup on this heli... and just use my 450 to practice 3D flying. I think with FAI blades and a bit more tweaking this will be a solid FAI machine at a more budget price that suits my needs better.

One other little issue I have right now… seems like I am outgrowing my DX7, so a better radio is on the list for this winter… but I will live without it for now and focus on my flying.

Thanx for your insight in this thread... and I hope you don’t mind if I ask you a question here and there about setup and whatnot.

Thanx again,

Igor
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:50 PM   #36
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OK here you go... The head, as per my current setup.



Do you think I should give the inner holes on my servo wheels/bell cranks a shot? Currently my limits are spot on @ 100/100.



Thanx again
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:18 PM   #37
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Let me interject here.

I took a look at the manual to get a better look at the head design. I may be wrong, but from what I can tell, it does not look like the delta is adjustable. I cannot tell for certain from the pictures that I have seen, but I hazard a guess that it is setup for neutral delta. In head setups like this delta is adjusted by the ball position on the end of the pitch arm that the upper mixer attaches to.

Here is an example of how delta would be adjusted on a different brand head.





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Old 09-15-2011, 08:46 PM   #38
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Ok I get it. I was over thinking it... I was thinking that maybe altering the mixing ratios also altered the delta on this head due to the mixers being on the grips... guess not. But that is an easy mod, the arms that come off the grips are removable... so I need to get myself a few extra sets and go visit my buddy that owns a machine shop.


That your sylphide?
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:57 PM   #39
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Ok I get it. I was over thinking it... I was thinking that maybe altering the mixing ratios also altered the delta on this head due to the mixers being on the grips... guess not. But that is an easy mod, the arms that come off the grips are removable... so I need to get myself a few extra sets and go visit my buddy that owns a machine shop.


That your sylphide?
Sounds like a good idea. In my experience, I found that if I ran correcting delta the helicopter would be much less collective jumpy when wind gusts hit which I what I prefer, when I ran neutral delta, I found that the helicopter wouldn't change attitude much when the gusts hit, but the heli would jump up and down (collectively). So, like everything, it's a trade off. I had to decide if I could fly the collective or fly the cyclic better to get it to stay glued in one spot in the sky. Hope that helps.

Ohh ya. That is NOT my Slyphide. I fly a Vibe E12.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:42 AM   #40
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Yeah, that head has no Delta compensation. For now, though that's good. This way you can tune your flybar ratios to your liking without secondary inputs related to Delta. According to that pic, your setup is minimum flybar ratio, with the Bell input taking precedence. If your flight testing shows a feel you like, however, it doesn't really matter what the setup is.
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