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Old 09-18-2006, 02:50 PM   #41
MD3DNT
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i just checked


Price: 680.00 799.00 Including VAT at 17.5%
800.00 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds = 1,184.02 EUR by far more expensive than the 1000$
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Old 09-18-2006, 02:52 PM   #42
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You are correct, it was GBP not Euro. The original statement still applies though.

No distributor has been chosen for France and Augusto is not in charge of how they apply prices. If you don't want to buy the product, don't buy it. Capitalism is the rule of the day.
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:02 AM   #43
Lars Blaabjerg
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What I have against the dealer excusivity is that it hampers competition. Competition is good for the consumers because it lowers prices.
If the product is attractive enough it will sell well even though the price is much higher.
Aother point: I'm not even sure that it is legal to restrict consumers in this way within the EU as it is very strict with anything that hampers competition.
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Old 09-19-2006, 06:42 AM   #44
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To all European customers,

You're all barking up the wrong tree. Augusto/Avant has nothing to do with the pricing that European dealers have to charge for a product.

If you European customers want to complain to someone about the price you have to pay for an item, complain to your politicians about the inordinate amount of TAXES that European countries levy against their citizens. Between all the import taxes, Value Added Taxes, higher gasoline taxes (think "product transportation"), and all the other ridiculous taxes that Liberal politicians in European countries establish, it's a wonder that you don't pay $2000 for an Aurora!

It costs a fixed amount of money to manufacture an Avant helicopter. Augusto charges a certain amount to his dealer network because he deserves to make a profit for his work (this is not philanthropy, it's business!) His dealers all pay the same price. Now, what happens to you European customers once an Avant leaves the American shores is NOT Augusto's problem!

European customers can not buy an Avant helicopter from the United States because Augusto is not interested in cannibalizing his own European dealer network. If all European customers buy direct from the U.S., then there would be no need for a European dealer network, and then all you Europeans would be complaining about how you have to buy all your replacement parts from waaaaaay over in the United States. That aside, you would still have to pay ridiculous Liberal taxes, so it's hardly worth the effort. Augusto's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't!

I'm getting very tired of hearing Europeans blame everything else except themselves for the prices they have to pay for anything. You elect your own politicians, in spite of the ridiculous taxes they establish against you to promote their own self-sufficiency. Augusto is not to blame for the price of an Avant bought anywhere in Europe... your collective politicians are. So quit whining about Augusto and what you perceive to be "unfair", and do your whining at the ballot box on your next general election.

It's fine if you have complaints and concerns, but I think we're quickly nearing a point where constructive debate is coming to an end, and the thread is turning into a "Bash Avant and their business practices" thread. If the thread degenerates any further towards this end, I'm going to lock the thread. I won't sit by and listen to misplaced European bashing of American business. This forum is about "Fun, learning, friendship, and MUTUAL RESPECT"... blaming Augusto for all your problems is not respectful, nor is fun or friendly.
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Old 09-19-2006, 09:34 AM   #45
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wow now we have political lessons
well thanks a lot but we are only interested in heli; the way we vote concerns only our taxes and fortunatly enough not to more important stuff
it seems that this Aurora subject was at least of interest to the heli community
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:19 AM   #46
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Yes, it is of interest, and that's fine. But as I stated to you privately, I'm not going to allow the thread to degenerate into an attack on Augusto or Avant just because people don't like the way in which Augusto has structured his dealer network. An Avant costs what it costs, and there's no point in complaining to (or about) Augusto about the cost of an Avant in Europe, because Augusto is not responsible for the price of helicopters in Europe. Like I said, if you want to complain about the prices of products in Europe, then complain to your politicians who keep raising the taxes on the items.

Augusto runs his business the way he wants. It's his choice to make, and that's all there is to it. No point in complaining about it.

If you think an Avant costs too much, then buy a less expensive helicopter.

This thread has turned from a review of the Aurora Ultimate into a complaining session about Augusto and the way he runs business.

Here's the bottom line: Enough is enough. This dead horse has been beaten for far too long. We can either redirect the thread back to it's original purpose (talking about and reviewing the Aurora Ultimate), or I'm locking the thread.
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:34 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddykitchen
To all European customers,
You're all barking up the wrong tree. Augusto/Avant has nothing to do with the pricing that European dealers have to charge for a product.
By enforcing local monopolies he has a very big influence on the price. That has nothing to do at all with our taxes.
And the argument for doing that is no good in my book.
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:47 AM   #48
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I don't want to cut-in with a different subject, but to return to the main topic I have a comment. from what i'v seen this product is completely worth the wait, there is one feature that really got me banging on the walls with joy.

quote from aurora's website:

"The clutch stack uses a precision point-threaded fan hub that virtually eliminates the need to dial-indicate the fan. The Starter shaft is not attached to the clutch directly but through a one-way bearing. This prevents the starter shaft from transmitting vibrations to the frame and allows for the use of simple inexpensive starter wands."

if I got my hands on this kit, and be asked what was the feature that mostly affected my choice, that would be it. a kit thats so precise that needs not to be dial-indicated or atleast not by much!

good luck avant team.. we'll all wait and I'd personally pay more for a 1st class RC heli like this one.
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:50 AM   #49
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I agree, it'll be a nice machine to see!
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Old 09-19-2006, 03:53 PM   #50
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Regardless, I think Lars and MD3 missed the previous points. Augusto sells the helicopter to the dealers over there (once they are selected) and the dealers in turn determine the price. I am going out on a limb here, but I believe they are listing the price higher than what they paid for it (that's simple economics, just fyi). Complaining about a dealer price is something you should be addressing to the dealer, not Augusto.

To answer Lars question, competition for pricing is a small part in determining the price of a product. Supply and demand are ultimately the driving force. There could be one dealer with 1000 kits, but if he's overcharging, don't buy it. You, the consumer make the choice whether or not the price is acceptable. More dealers means nothing really when this really basic portion of the equation is applied. If you don't like high import taxes and duties, you, the voter can determine who is in office to make such policies.

Ultimately, it boils down to this. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. I don't like the price of a Ferrari but you don't see me calling up Uncle Enzo and whining to him about the price do you? Let's put it into an analogy you can understand, since the previous one might slip past you. I don't fly turbine helicopters because they are too expensive. Not because I don't want to, but because it's financially irresponsible for me to at this point. Do I complain to Bergen or Wren or Jetcat? No. Do I want to fly a turbine? You darn spanky I do!

It's an open market and there are other helicopters you can buy. Heck, if you like Avant that much, the price should not matter to you. If it does, than that should be part of your decision making process in purchasing.

All that being said, this forum and specifically this thread are not for the discussion of economics, world markets, politics and capitalism. Since you can't comprehend the concept of the previously mentioned topics after they have been explained to you ad nauseum, you have come on here and complained to the manufacturer about something he has no control of. You've been asked to stop the nonsense. Actually, you've been asked nicely a couple times. Now, I'm telling you. This site is about helicopters and a fun, learning, friendly and respectful environment. Keep to that and everything should be fine.
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:55 PM   #51
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The moderators in this forum make a meaningful debate impossible.
I'm out of here.
Bye.

P.S. For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, take a look at the font size of my last post (if you can see the text at all).
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Old 09-19-2006, 05:41 PM   #52
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I just wanted to say that the two people flaming this thread do NOT speak for me, nor, in all likelihood, most of Europe.

I also don't appreciate people preaching politics on any of the heli forums I frequent - regardless of the side they come from

Lets stick to the heli's guys, and have fun
Crikey, I cannot wait to get my hands on the Aurora!!!
Cheers,
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Old 09-19-2006, 05:46 PM   #53
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Quote:
The moderators in this forum make a meaningful debate impossible.
I'm out of here.
Bye.

P.S. For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, take a look at the font size of my last post (if you can see the text at all).
It is all in your approach. Buh-Bye.
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Old 09-19-2006, 06:39 PM   #54
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Lars,

As I stated to you privately, your post was shrunk because I said I wouldn't have any more Avant bashing. You decided to press the issue one more time. I shrunk your post. Did you think I wasn't serious?

You're free to disagree, but I mean what I say. When a moderator on HeliFreak says "enough's enough", that's generally not a good time for you to press the issue.

I'm sorry to see you go. You'll be missed. Good luck in your pursuits, and you're welcome back at the Freak should you ever change your mind.
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Old 09-20-2006, 12:17 AM   #55
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who do you think you are kitchen
you can if you want make people stop thinking??
democratie is probably a word you don't know ......
well anyway we have said what we think about the augusto problem and i am sure that at least in france i have been heard if i judge by the numbers of mails i received.
probably augusto pays a lot to advertize on this forum
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:21 AM   #56
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oh come ooon, MD3DNT, whats the REAL problem here? its a heli that has been designed and studied and tested numerous times by professionals who were working very hard on producing a peace of art.
its like what clay said (and everybody kept saying), I like it, I actually love the heli, they didn't need to just rely on writeups and ads, the videos and experiences explain all. I honestly thought that this is going to be alot more expensive that the estimated price posted on their site. I am not loaded, but I would save $$ to buy a kit that's worth of this class.

its really very very simple, i feel that you are inlfuenced to keep repeating these posts because you have problems with politics or something similar..why drag politics and all the stuff we try to forget into a community that's interested in nothing but fun and friendship.. if you want to talk about anything other than helis, there's an off-topics section where you can go and vent all you like within the rules ofcourse.

I am just asking, please talk about the topic here, reviews that is, thoughts about the heli, what you are looking forward for.. if you are interested in dealership contact avant team directly, if you are interested only in buying it, wait for a dealer to be chosen and buy it from them, if the dealer is greedy, thats between you and them.
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:27 AM   #57
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NO problem at all
the topic is closed
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Old 09-20-2006, 05:28 AM   #58
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Augusto is actually paying us NOTHING! We trade him his advertising for him hosting 10G of our videos for the last year.

What you may have noticed is that the people on this site fly helis not just the keyboard and we keep it real and call it like we see it.

There is nobody who replied to your thread who owns or even flys an Aurora, they replied because your argument was meant to do nothing more than stir the pot, and that is not how we do it over here on HeliFreak.com.

So guess what... you don't know everything do you?

We love helis here and we don't like people just trying to stir the pot.
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:13 AM   #59
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I would like to fly an Avant :mrgreen:
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:29 AM   #60
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oh sooo me tooo :mrgreen:
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