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600 Class Electric Helicopters 600 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 01-17-2013, 02:55 AM   #261
BillyG
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Default Wooden blades?

Hi members, I recently bought a second hand trex 600 ESP from a mate & I have broken the carbon main blades already. I have another set but I don't want to break another set as they are costly. My question is, are wooden ones ok for hovering & flying circuits? I have gone from ma trex 450 pro to the 600 & I would like to save the carbon one for when I have more stick time on the 600.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:59 AM   #262
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You can fly woodies for your purpose with out any issues.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:42 AM   #263
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Thanks, that will make things a bit cheaper for a while
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:40 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyG View Post
Hi members, I recently bought a second hand trex 600 ESP from a mate & I have broken the carbon main blades already. I have another set but I don't want to break another set as they are costly. My question is, are wooden ones ok for hovering & flying circuits? I have gone from ma trex 450 pro to the 600 & I would like to save the carbon one for when I have more stick time on the 600.
cheers
check out the Pro 3D carbon blades on HobbyKing...shipping sucks but I order 3 pairs at a time to make it worth it. They fly great
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:26 PM   #265
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TRex 600 ESP Super Combo. The build instructions state the tail rotor servo horn should be 10mm from the servo centre to ensure the GP780 'registers' the servo travel which mustnt be less than 50%. Do people find this works OK or in reality, does the horn need to be closer to the servo centre?

Im using the Align GP 780 and DS620 digital servo. The instructions say to use the 5.1v step down regulator but, the DS620 is supposed to be ok with the voltage from the supplied align 1900mah 7.4v pack so, should I not fit the voltage regulator? The DS610's supplied seem ok running off the battery pack with no step down.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:12 PM   #266
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Bert did run them servos on 7 volts for a while and didn't have a problem
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:28 AM   #267
cgetman02
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Default Help! Chaos 600E head setup

OK boys need some help. Changing my 600E Flybar Chaos over from DX6i to XP9303. Head setup is driving me crazy.

When I level the swash it is ending up too high on the mainshaft to get a full range of pitch on the blades. I have to level the swash using the elevator height as the reference as the elevator doesn't allow height adjustment. I have had the heli flying with the DX6i for a long time and can't figure out what I have changed on the head that has thrown it all out of whack! Elevator linkage is centered in the observation hole.

At the point of setting it aside due to frustration. Any guidance would be appreciated!

Curt aka: Crashmaster
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:55 AM   #268
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I don't know much about Chaos helicopters but perhaps there is another hole for the jesus bolt through the main shaft to raise the head block. I believe some main shafts have this for running flybarless or flybar heads...
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:06 AM   #269
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Razeyoshi, That would help the situation but there is only a single mounting hole in the main shaft.

Keep the ideas coming!

Thanks, Crashmaster
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:55 AM   #270
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Did you change anything on the head or just swapping your TX over? Is it servo travel that's not enough or the swash hitting the washout base? I may be able to throw another idea your way with some more information...
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:10 AM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razeyoshi View Post
Did you change anything on the head or just swapping your TX over? Is it servo travel that's not enough or the swash hitting the washout base? I may be able to throw another idea your way with some more information...
Started out just changing over the TX but ended up going through the head setup. Big mistake and headache now.

I can get plenty of servo travel. It's just that the washout base is hitting the headblock before I can get above +6 deg. or so when I do the setup as described in this post: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=158594&page=4 Post #67.

I'm trying to remember what I did when I setup the heli with the DX6i. I think I ended up jumping a spline on each of the servos to lower the swash and then go back through the linkage setup.

I've tried so many different work arounds at this point I need some help finding my way out of the trees.

Thanks for any ideas you might have!
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:36 AM   #272
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Ok so I just looked at a Chaos 600 helicopter image online. It looks like a 600ESP copy so that's why you posted here...

I feel you man, sometimes this hobby can be frustrating. Sounds like you started adjusting the head without your collective stick centered (50 in 50 out) so now everything is higher than it should be. (just a hunch, I've done it before)

Anyhow, it does not have to be perfectly centered in the observation hole, your just eyeing it up there. Next time (if everything was working fine before) use a little subtrim to lower the elevator and level the swash. But this time you will have to re-adjust the head again to make it work. I don't miss that part about flybar rotor heads. I like only having two links to adjust from swash to blade grips on flybarless. I hope this post helps...
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:45 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razeyoshi View Post
Ok so I just looked at a Chaos 600 helicopter image online. It looks like a 600ESP copy so that's why you posted here...

I feel you man, sometimes this hobby can be frustrating. Sounds like you started adjusting the head without your collective stick centered (50 in 50 out) so now everything is higher than it should be. (just a hunch, I've done it before)

Anyhow, it does not have to be perfectly centered in the observation hole, your just eyeing it up there. Next time (if everything was working fine before) use a little subtrim to lower the elevator and level the swash. But this time you will have to re-adjust the head again to make it work. I don't miss that part about flybar rotor heads. I like only having two links to adjust from swash to blade grips on flybarless. I hope this post helps...
Thanks for your ideas. I'll give them a try later today.

I actually have a FBL head and controller that I was going to use on this heli but I had the FB setup working so well I didn't convert it over. Maybe now is the time. May prevent me banging my head on the wall.

Headed out to fly for a while, clear my head and socialize. Will check in later with my latest results.

Thanks again, Curt
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:52 AM   #274
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600 ESP head setup
This is the most complete information I could locate on the subject...

Quite a few people have had questions about the ESP head setup, so I wrote this up. I'm no wizard at this (its only my second heli), but this procedure worked well for me. Here's what I did (and the reasoning), I hope it helps:
Basically, I worked from the servos up. I began with the linkage lengths all according to the manual, but most of them ended up significantly different from the manuals settings. Most of them shorter.
Before you start
UNPLUG THE MOTOR. Or otherwise ensure that you cannot accidentally get it powered.
Radio setup
I assume you have the servos connected, the correct swash mixing set up, and set your trims and subtrims to 0.

Program the normal pitch curve to 50,50,50,50,50, and idle up to the usual 0,25,50,75,100. This allows you to work on the head at 0 collective pitch, without being concerned about the stick location. The idle up curve allows you to reach the full range of collective, with the flick of a switch.

From here on, assume the radio is on, and the normal (50%) pitch curve is active. So you're at center stick, 0 pitch.
Servos
Wheel installation
Begin the setup by getting the servos, bellcranks, and their links on correctly. The align 8 hole wheels have a different angle between the spline and each pair of holes. All 8 positions are different! Even a 180 flip of the wheel ends up with a different angle of the holes to the spline. You need to choose the hole pair that lines up the wheel the best. What you're looking for, is the two hole/ball locations that the links attach to are at right angles to the line from the servo shaft to the bellcrank shaft. Install the wheel using the hole pair that are closest to perfectly square, then use subtrim to tweak it the last little bit. It should look something like this.


Bellcrank links
Now you need to set the link length from the servo wheels to the bellcranks. The two front servos are done the same way. Leave one link off, and adjust the other so that the bellcrank is oriented correctly. This picture is fuzzy, but it shows what you're looking for: The elevator servo shaft (rear servo, between the frames), the bellcrank output ball, the bellcrank shaft, and the center of the sighting hole in the frames should all be in a straight line parallel to the top of the frames. Once you have set one of the two link lengths between the servo wheel and the bellcrank, the other one is easy. Just attach the servo end, and adjust the length so that it pops on the bellcrank ball without binding. If you want, you can then verify that the two links are the same length. If you got the servo wheel square and the bellcrank square, they have to be equal.


Elevator arm links
The rear servo is done in a similar fashion. It's just a bit frustrating, because it's hard to reach in there! Leave one link off, and adjust the other such that the elevator arms pivot appears in the center of the sighting hole. When you've got the first link set so the arm is in the correct position, just adjust the other link to fit, like you did with the front servos. Again, you can double check the link lengths to verify they are equal.
This diagram shows the servo and bellcrank links all set up...The angle on the servo wheel looks off, but it should be 90 degrees too.

Head linkages
Swash level
The elevator arm pivot should be centered in the sight hole. This fixes the swash height because the elevator arm has no length adjustment. The only thing you can do, is level the swash at the height set by the elevator arm. Do this by adjusting the two links from the bellcranks. Personally, I like a swash leveling tool that looks like this. It sits on top of the swash.

Pop the swash leveler on, and adjust the length of the links from the two bellcranks so the swash is level. Each leg of the tool should just barely touch the arm on the swash that is supporting it. Of course, the tool requires the upper parts of the head be removed. So while you've got it apart, flip the switch on the radio and move the collective to full up and down. In those positions, adjust the servo endpoints so you have a level swash there as well.

Install head
Put the upper parts of the head on, and put the radio back on normal curve. 0 pitch!

Upper arms
Now, the swash is level and its height is fixed. The flybar seesaw height is also fixed (you can't move the head block)! Consider the long links from the swash to the upper mixing arms (the arms that pivot on the seesaw). You cannot move the hardware at either end of these links up or down. So the next thing to do, is adjust the length of the links from the swash to the upper mixing arms that pivot on the seesaw. Set the links so the upper arms are level. During this step, you must keep the flybar level. I remove the links from the cage down to the lower arms, and put a flybar clamp on, to hold it level. It's easy to make a flybar clamp with a rod and a couple alligator clips. I don't have a picture of this step, but its pretty simple. Just get the upper arms level by adjusting the links from the swash up to the long end of the upper arms (with the flybar level).

Lower arms
The lower arms are next. The "swash driver" links from the lower arms down to the swash plate are fixed length, and should be on. Take one link from a lower arm up to the flybar cage off. And adjust the other link (from the flybar cage to the other lower arm) , until the lower arms (pivoting on the slider) are level. While you're doing this, you have to be sure that the flybar cage is level. This adjustment may require a few iterations, because the slider moves up and down as you adjust the link length. But theres only one right length when you get it, it should look like this.


Now adjust the link on the other side to match. This ones easier, because the slider height is fixed by the other arm and wont move around. In fact, the arm should be held level with the first one, and all you have to do is set the link length so it pops on. While you're doing this, you still have to be sure that the flybar cage is level. When you're done, the two lower links should be level and line up with each other at both ends. Like this...


Grip links
Finally, you have to set the short links from the upper mixing arms to the blade grips. Again, you have to ensure the flybar cage is level during the adjustment. However you do it, eyeball, pitch gauge, laser beams, electron microscope... the objective is to adjust the links so the blades have zero pitch. You ARE still on the normal curve with 0 pitch right?

Now you can go on to setting up the mixing percentages in your radio, so you get the desired collective and cyclic pitch ranges.

That's it.
Heres another picture of the finished job. The viewpoint is a little bit high in this picture, so the output ball on the bellcrank appears to be above the line of the sight hole/bellcrank shaft/servo shaft... but its not. With the view a bit lower, it's right on line. parallax.



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Old 12-27-2013, 11:40 AM   #275
cgetman02
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Nightflyr, That is the setup that I have been using to try and get my setup to work. Not sure what I'm up against right now. Wonder if I have a slightly shorter mainshaft and that might be the problem. This hardware was working before I started fiddling with it though. Hmmmm, not sure might just have to put it aside for a while and come at it fresh.

Still wondering what happened and I'm probably just one step away, just knowing the right step is the issue. This kind of thing bugs me.

Still welcoming ideas, Curt
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:47 AM   #276
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Let us know what's up. I still think you didn't have the TX pitch curves in normal mode set at 50 across the board and you had the throttle stick down when you went to adjust the servo horns and links to the head...
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