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Old 08-03-2012, 11:02 PM   #1
jolyboy
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Default Breakthrough!! Flymentor w/ FBL

Ok, just had a breakthrough with this. I know most of you will yawn when you see this thread, as there are many n00b threads on this subject, HOWEVER... This will be gold for anyone wanting to run self-level on the FBL setup.

It started when I began hating FB due to the annoying linkages and setup. I upgraded to a 450DFC head, with a tarot ZYX-S gyro. It flew perfect for an FBL setup, but I wanted self-level too.

I managed to get flymentor stabilization working on my FBL HK450 BETTER than on a flybarred system.

All I did was daisy-chain the systems like this:

For Cyclic: RX > Flymentor > ZYX > Servos
For Yaw: RX > ZYX > Servo



The swash type was set to "90 1 servo" in flymentor, otherwise all settings default.

The flight was extremely hairy, as the copper "toiletbowled" like crazy. I figured the gain was too high, so i reduced total gain in FM to 3 instead of 8 (2 was not enough, 4 was getting hectic). Then I reduced the positioning speed to 3 instead of 8 (heli would "twitch" otherwise). I figure the need for a reduction in overall gain is due to the touchiness of FBL.

This setup works better compared a FB system, because the tarot ZYX uses deadband to filter out the servo noise normally present with normal flymentor. The servos are all running much smoother now. Its also much more resilient to wind, as the ZYX counters that much better than a flybar would. Now it just hovers there waiting for a command. If a big gust comes, it gains altitude, but otherwise will just float there.

So there you have it.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:09 AM   #2
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Sounds good since no one tried doing this to that extent before, a flight/hover video will be interesting to watch on that. I wonder if this will also work with other brands of FBL systems, I am sure time will tell. Do both position and balance mode work.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:05 AM   #3
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Yes, both modes work perfect. I'm running a dx6i, so I can't quickly switch between modes, but I've tried both modes and they work great. I just leave it on position mode, since I turned the positioning speed down.

I love cruising along, then letting go of the sticks and watch it slide gently to a stop, its incredible.

Ill try get a video posted up tomorrow



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Old 08-04-2012, 07:29 PM   #4
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The video shows pretty bad flying, but I broke it down so you could see what I was demonstrating:

0:10 - 0:14 - Position holding with no stick
0:14 - 0:18 - Forward cyclic then released sticks
0:25 - Bit too much stick, not enough collective, nearly crashed (but notice it still levelled out!!)
0:28 - 0:40 - Smacking the sticks and seeing it level out
0:55 - end - Position holding with no stick and my shoddy collective control skills



I did some more flying, and 90% of my landings are now with pretty much zero stick input, just easing the collective. Take-offs feel the same as any other heli, except it will try and hold its position after a few seconds.

Last edited by jolyboy; 08-12-2012 at 05:18 PM.. Reason: fixed youtube link
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:52 AM   #5
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Thanks for that, seems a bit erratic but I am sure it isn't the technology. It would still be nice to see a longer hands free hover in one spot and more relaxed changes in direction. The ultimate test of FM working well is to be able to hover controlled in all orientations and remain a longer period hovering nose in. If you are able to do that you would have achieved your goal
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:06 PM   #6
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Yes that erratic flying is 90% due to my skill level , and 10% was me trying to demonstrate its ability to recover from erratic inputs. I tried to take another video, but I can't seem to do it justice... For now, this tread will just have to be a resource for other people to try.

Since the last video I've tuned the flymentor settings a little (smoother FF and better self levelling):

BALANCER
Balance sense: 85
Attack angle: 3
Total gain: 3
Stick gain: 5
CCD gain: 4
Forward free: 8

EXPERT
Man override: 5
Ele gain: 8
Stick accel: 6
Pos speed: 10

The tarot ZYX settings are the same as those you would use without flymentor, I just use the beginner preset.

So that's what I've done.. I can't do it justice without you actually flying it. All I can say is this is the system ill be using from now on

Joly

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Old 08-06-2012, 10:26 PM   #7
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I wonder if it is possible to configure this to work with the 3gx..... time will tell I guess
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli man01 View Post
I wonder if it is possible to configure this to work with the 3gx..... time will tell I guess
I'm sure it would, as the FBL unit essentially replaces the flybar..

Bored at work, thought I'd share the other video of the test. It was taken on the first day of testing like the other video. The system is now smoother than this due to different settings and higher gains. The landing was done completely hands free (except for collective)


Last edited by jolyboy; 08-12-2012 at 05:20 PM.. Reason: fixed youtube link
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:58 PM   #9
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I did this same thing a year ago with the flymentor and an older Sk360.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post
I did this same thing a year ago with the flymentor and an older Sk360.
How did it go for you? How was it to fly?
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:34 AM   #11
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Only just saw this, would the setup be the same for the Hobbyking ZYX controller?
I bought Flymentor before I realised it only worked with a flybar setup, I'd be stoked if I could get it to work on FBL
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:57 PM   #12
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Last weeked I had about 10 flights with this setup, about 5 of which were FPV. I have to say I find FPV much easier and about 10 times more fun than normal flying!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrydad View Post
Only just saw this, would the setup be the same for the Hobbyking ZYX controller?
I bought Flymentor before I realised it only worked with a flybar setup, I'd be stoked if I could get it to work on FBL
1. Tune the zyx to fly as smooth as you can ( I used beginner settings, as we are going for stability) without flymentor. You want to get the heli flying smoothly before attempting to add flymentor (same as with FB).

2. You can hook up the flymentor in accordance with the wiring diagram in my other post. Use the sticky for more info on flymentor. You need to be 100% sure the gyro and sticks are working in the right direction or the heli will crash and burn

3. As a starting point, you can use the flymentor settings I posted earlier. If the flymentor gain is too high the heli will wobble in the air.

Good luck
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:24 PM   #13
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Interesting! I've a HK500 flybar with KDS FM, only I've used a quark gyro with the setup. But your success had me online immediately looking for best price on a FBL head! Maybe I'll try to keep the quark, I'll have to think about it. But I wonder whether the the ZYX NEEDS a rudder input for its computations, even if the tail servo was actually controlled by a quark... Or maybe the ZYX tail control is good enough to take out the quark... Any thoughts?
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #14
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I agree, it would be a shame to not use the quark. I really like the ZYX tail gyro (even held by 450 with a slow analog HK 9g servo with minor blowouts on pitch pumps). AFAIK its separate to cyclic control so you wont have problems running ZYX and FM together for cyclic and a quark for the tail.

Then again, if you have a FM, a ZYX and a Quark as well there will be and absolute birds nest of wiring haha

Then AGAIN... its work the fun of trying it
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:57 AM   #15
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I'd really like to see a pic of where and how you managed to mount all the electronics. I'm having enough problems mounting flymentor on a HK 450
Did you use a separate tail gyro?

Nice work BTW
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:40 AM   #16
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Are you using a separate BEC? and if so what Amp.

Brownouts can be a problem without one as I found out!


By the way, I had no problem fitting FM, and the wiring was easy.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:01 AM   #17
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Just quality. Thanks for making me smile.
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:54 AM   #18
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OK, Games Up.

Heres two pics if it will help anyone installing FM.

Using the Quark is like night and day difference and with my setup it all works peachy!

The 2 bubble levels (glued together T-shape) make sure that FM initialises zero on both axis for each lipo change. Makes for consistency in setup and flights.


Happy Nose-in!
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesb463 View Post
Are you using a separate BEC? and if so what Amp.
Brownouts can be a problem without one as I found out!<snip>
what ESC/BEC were you using when you had the problem, what amp rating for the BEC? And that was just on the 450 with not too power-hungry servos? A separate BEC with Rx+FM+ZYX may be a wise idea.
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:37 PM   #20
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I was using a 3A Ubec. I am now using a 5A.

Not only is it a wise idea, its bloody essential !!!

Good Luck.
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