Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 450 Class Electric Helicopters


450 Class Electric Helicopters 450 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-21-2009, 04:00 AM   #41
toolguy420
Registered Users
 
Posts: 383
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holden, Maine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary JP4 View Post
...if you have a hard time finding them as RZ-522...
Actually, it's R2-5ZZ , get 4 of them for $6.99 here: http://stores.channeladvisor.com/inethobby/Items/b01015a?sck=43905117&caSKU=b01015a&caTitle=B01015A %20%20Motor%20Bearings(R2-5ZZ)%20B01015A
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	430 bearings.jpg
Views:	319
Size:	14.2 KB
ID:	78072  
toolguy420 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 10:40 PM   #42
HeliBenj
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,724
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Provence, France
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary JP4 View Post
As with any bearing you have to side load the bearing and feel by hand. You have to at least take the motor out of the heli to check though. It my still be hard to inspect both bearings while they are still in the motor. If you side load the shaft by holding the pinion and loading at various angles including pushing and pulling while all the time turning by hand and feeling for roughness, grittiness, or any anomaly you can probably tell about both bearings. The problem is to get the lower bearing (bearing opposite end from the pinion) side loaded. The bearing closest to the pinion makes that hard to do while the bearings are still in the motor. Of course if you took the motor apart and inspected the bearings separately in this same manor it would be easier or more accurate. The good thing is the bearing closest to the pinion takes the most load and is probably the most likely to fail first. If it starts to fail replace them both.
I checked my motor in a desperate attempt to understand why it runs so hot (can't touch it more than 3 seconds after a 4.5 min hover). I've been checking all other possible causes without success (belt, mesh, binding, curves, timing...).
Now I felt a noticeable axial play on my motor when I pull and push the pinion. Is it normal? When spooled up out of the heli I can hear a fairly weird noise.
Should I change the bearings? could this explain the motor runs so hot and low flight time (4.5 min on 12t and conservative curves and flight style).

Thanks for the help and the greatly informative thread!
__________________
Ben
Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251
DX8, RF6
HeliBenj is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 05:57 PM   #43
Gary JP4
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,869
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nashville, USA
Default

It shouldn't have any end or side play. Replace them. Also check to make sure the shaft isn't slipping inside the bearings but it is probably bad bearings.
__________________
T-Rex 450 SE, 430L 13t, Align 35A ESC, 325 Pro, JR 6102DX6, GY401, 9650, HS-65MG'S.
Gary JP4 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 12:23 PM   #44
HeliBenj
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,724
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Provence, France
Default

So I ended up opening my motor to have a look at the bearings thanks to the instructions in this thread. It just opened up on the other side but it was ok.
Except for the end play, they seemed alright and hadn't slept from the covers. Maybe the tolerances from the factory allowed for a minimal vertical play?
To get rid of it, I sanded the bottom of the outer can down a bit where I had opened it so that the cover would scew on a little deeper into the can. no more end play after that.
It may be me, but the motor now seems to run a bit cooler and the batteries show a bit more voltage after flights.
__________________
Ben
Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251
DX8, RF6
HeliBenj is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 12:27 PM   #45
HeliBenj
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,724
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Provence, France
Default

I forgot: I couldn't change the bearings as I couldn't find anyone who sells them here in Mexico... If they really go bad I'll have to change the motor or find a way to get them from the US...
__________________
Ben
Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251
DX8, RF6
HeliBenj is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 02:41 PM   #46
Scottlclem
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tennessee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoah View Post
I forgot: I couldn't change the bearings as I couldn't find anyone who sells them here in Mexico... If they really go bad I'll have to change the motor or find a way to get them from the US...
It because of trade barriers or just that hooby shops won't sell to Mexico?
Scottlclem is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 12:08 AM   #47
HeliBenj
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,724
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Provence, France
Default

Well, LHS only have quite basic stuff here, I guess we aren't so many with helis around here yet, so you don't find everything locally or you find it quite expensive. I know only 2 serious heli LHS in Mexico City (22 Million people...) and 3 online mexican shops...

If you buy from the US online, you have to pay extra fees for international shipment and import tax. Customs may also be a problem.
I envy you guys in the US who order in two clicks and receive whatever part 2 days later to your door for the right price! But I always find solutions to keep the bird airborne and keep learning and enjoying!
__________________
Ben
Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251
DX8, RF6
HeliBenj is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:38 PM   #48
toolguy420
Registered Users
 
Posts: 383
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holden, Maine
Default

I've managed to loosen up both end caps, but they won't come off - are they threaded or pressed on? Thanks...............
__________________
Push the envelope...Watch it bend
T-Rex 600 E$P
T-Rex 500 E$P

MD500E/T-Rex450$E
DX-7
toolguy420 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:41 PM   #49
HeliBenj
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,724
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Provence, France
Default

They are threaded... turn as you were unscrewing.

Hope that helps
__________________
Ben
Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251
DX8, RF6
HeliBenj is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:46 PM   #50
toolguy420
Registered Users
 
Posts: 383
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holden, Maine
Default

Whoops...got it. Was trying to edit my post before anybody saw it
Thanks, Benoah

Just got the bearings out and they are SHOT! Feels like little dice inside there instead of nice round balls...
__________________
Push the envelope...Watch it bend
T-Rex 600 E$P
T-Rex 500 E$P

MD500E/T-Rex450$E
DX-7
toolguy420 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:59 PM   #51
toolguy420
Registered Users
 
Posts: 383
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holden, Maine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottlclem View Post
Align intended you to throw away and buy another.
I think what Align intended was for us to buy the bearings (since they do sell them as motor specific bearings) and screw the motor up trying to replace them. Then they would have got us for the bearings AND a new motor. What they didn't intend on was this thread................

Quick and easy homemade tools: take an old hack saw blade, snap it in half and drill the required holes. Voila!
__________________
Push the envelope...Watch it bend
T-Rex 600 E$P
T-Rex 500 E$P

MD500E/T-Rex450$E
DX-7
toolguy420 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 04:51 AM   #52
joups
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: oz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary JP4 View Post
In 40 some odd years taking things apart and replacing hundreds if not thousands of bearings, I have never seen a bad bearing right out of the box until I came across Chinese (if you will) helis including the Trex..
Leave it on a ship for three months or anything that moves and it won't be good in terms of noise but still the bearing is normally good for the service life of the manufactures service interval
joups is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 11:30 AM   #53
Gary JP4
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,869
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nashville, USA
Default

No, these were not corroded, pitted, or worn. Some of the balls looked like they were never even machined. They didn't even look like they were made out of steel. More like chunks of the reddish purple rock they make iron out of in approximately the same size as a ball. However, right next to one ball like that there were other nicely polished and finished steel balls. The races were finished nicely also. I have received several like that myself and seen pictures in other threads.
__________________
T-Rex 450 SE, 430L 13t, Align 35A ESC, 325 Pro, JR 6102DX6, GY401, 9650, HS-65MG'S.
Gary JP4 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 02:45 PM   #54
zen
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,043
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Berkeley, California
Default A couple of notes

Isn't this thread exactly what we need, sooner or later? I just finished changing the bearings (from Boca) in one of my shot 430L motors and am about to order another set of bearings for spare motor #2. Here are some things I encountered with my motor:

1. I didn't make the wrenches. Instead I screwed screws into both end caps and used a channel lock plier on the end with the shaft sticking out and a screwdriver blade against the screws in the other end. It came apart with moderate effort. I would say use hardened black screws for this. The silver ones bent.....

2. Only one end cap came off; the one that the output shaft sticks out of.

3. tapping the armature and windings in and out of the end cap was the hardest part of this procedure. Especially getting them back in. I ended up using the end of a drill bit that had a diameter large enough to entirely cover the hole and surrounding aluminum of the tunnel that the shaft from the magnetic rotor passes through. I got it slightly sideways a couple of time which can't be good for the hole in the end cap. This makes me suspect that after a couple of bearing changes the end cap may get so eroded the motor can't be rebuilt.

4. I used a bit of green loctite inside the bearing cups but it occurs to me that the motor is built in such a way that they don't really need it. If I didn't use it where could the bearings go? Nowhere.

5. It took enough torsion to unscrew the end cap that I am confident green loctite is adequate to keep the motor together. That is how it was assembled at the factory and bearing failure aside it did not come apart.

6. The aluminum foil seal over the bottom end cap bearing had to be removed to tap out the windings/armature and I can't seem to find it. Although I would like to replace it to keep dirt away from that end of the motor it also occurs to me that I can now lubricate that bearing, which was not possible before.

The output shaft now turns smoothly and there is no radial play. I haven't installed the motor to try it out but it seems like it should work.

P.S.: I am spinning the motor to track down vibration in the heli as I rebuild it. With just the main shaft and gears installed from 1/4 to 1/3 throttle in normal mode there is a transient vibration that clears up after 1/2 throttle (throttle curve = 65% at mid-stick). A couple of drops of Tri-flow in each bearing reduces but does not entirely eliminate the vibration in this rpm range.
__________________
Trex 450 SE V2

T-rex 500 ESP

Last edited by zen; 04-20-2009 at 01:02 AM..
zen is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 10:30 PM   #55
toolguy420
Registered Users
 
Posts: 383
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holden, Maine
Default

UPDATE: Another 430L 3550 back in service thanks to iceman33 and this thread.
__________________
Push the envelope...Watch it bend
T-Rex 600 E$P
T-Rex 500 E$P

MD500E/T-Rex450$E
DX-7
toolguy420 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2009, 08:52 PM   #56
iceman33
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: shanghai/foshan
Default

thanks every one!
it's long time that I didn't be here.
I'm busy to make some aftermarket upgrades parts for ALIGN's heli.
I will share all my happiness and I hope that you will also be happy as well as I do.
Because of my limited English ability, there is no way to express a lot of things, but I will do my best.
the one things that I want tell all of you that is my thrust bearing bulit-in bearing block for TREX450.
More than 500 units sold, there is no one need to repair a damaged bearing.I love it.hope you like too.
__________________
When one day you can manage hover,the sky is your home!
iceman33 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2009, 07:31 PM   #57
toolguy420
Registered Users
 
Posts: 383
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holden, Maine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman33
More than 500 units sold


Where are you selling them?
__________________
Push the envelope...Watch it bend
T-Rex 600 E$P
T-Rex 500 E$P

MD500E/T-Rex450$E
DX-7
toolguy420 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 12:05 AM   #58
zen
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,043
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Berkeley, California
Default

FYI it is not necessary to make the wrenches. Just screw two screws into each end bell and use two of the heavier variety of needle nose pliers to twist one of the caps off of the motor casing. I have disassembled three 430L motors this way and it's a cinch.

I too would like to know more about iceman's custom main bearing block....

Glen
__________________
Trex 450 SE V2

T-rex 500 ESP
zen is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 10:22 AM   #59
SidewaysLS4
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Default

I pulled my motor apart to see if I could make a nice extra motor for another clone build...The motor shaft was ground down under the bearing on the pinion end, but the bearing seemed fine, strange. Thoughts on how to fix or replace the motor shaft with common household objects...or is it still junk?
SidewaysLS4 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2009, 06:22 PM   #60
coredump
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,153
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bay area, CA
Default replacing 430 sp bearing

Hi,

I build the tool using metal strips from home depot.
I can't find the M4 screw. I end up using a bag of
#4-40x3/8" from home depot which works fine.

I am surprised to find out that 430sp have totally different
bearing size. I buy the R2-5zz which end up uesless.

The output end seems using MR84ZZ, the same bearing
used in the blade grip. I replace it with MR84ZZ it seems
fit very well.

The other end is not so lucky. The shaft size is 3.5mm.
I could not find a bearing inner size is 3.5mm. Does any one
knows where I can get such a bearing? Because I don't have
replacement bearing. I did not take the original one out.
I really wish I can get such a bearing so I can replace the
other one as well. Oh well.
coredump is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Copyright © 2004-2016 by RCGroups.com, LLC except where otherwise indicated. The HeliFreak.com logo is a trademark of RCGroups.com, LLC.