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Old 01-11-2017, 02:52 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Did they ever fix the issue with YGEs limiting the power output on 8 pole motors? I know KDE switched their whole lineup to 10 poles with the gen 3 motors for that reason.
I ran yge for years with my scorp 8 pole motor on my x5 with zero problems, always had plenty of power. I don't think they ever had a problem with 8 pole motors. I know they had a problem with some high pole motors but that was fixed.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:52 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by panamacitymustang View Post
I picked up a second hand trex 600 efl. I have a sk 540 fbl unit. And a cc Phoenix ice 80 v2 Esc. I never messed with the governor before. Which one has a better governor to use.
It depends. If the previous owner soldered an rpm sensor to the motor wires, take advantage of the Skookum governor. The Skookum governor performance maintains a more consistent rpm than the Castle governor. If the previous owner did not solder an rpm sensor, and you just want to fly what you have, the Castle governor may be good enough.

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Originally Posted by panamacitymustang View Post
Any tips would be appreciated.
1) Consider using the MrMel HS calculator to figure out the optimal motor pinion and head speeds to use.

2) Keep in mind that the Castle ESC does not feature Active Free Wheel, so try using head speeds that yield no lower than about 87% throttle.

3) Before you calibrate the Castle ESC, decide whether or not you want to use the "Autorotation" feature. Checking or unchecking the "Autorotation" box on the Castle software changes the calibration numbers.

Good luck!
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:03 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by curmudgeon View Post
2) Keep in mind that the Castle ESC does not feature Active Free Wheel, so try using head speeds that yield no lower than about 87% throttle.
I think active freewheel acts to keep the ESC from getting hot at lower values of throttle setpoint like 60%.

Any governor needs "headroom" to regulate the speed. So that is why any ESC should below below 90% during hover. If you think of the throttle gain as a power setting, the model needs more power on things that load the collective. It needs to be able to turn up the power to maintain HS during maneuvers. If you are at 100% during a simple hover, there is no headroom. Headroom has nothing to do with active freewheel.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:50 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I'm extremely pleased with governor performance on my Kontronik ESCs. Not only do they work as well or better than any FBL governors I've seen they don't require any external wiring or sensors and they are super easy to setup.

Since the headspeed is set by the throttle curve I can easily adjust the headspeed on they fly without the need the need to land and program a specific value in the transmitter or FBL unit itself.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:32 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Did they ever fix the issue with YGEs limiting the power output on 8 pole motors? I know KDE switched their whole lineup to 10 poles with the gen 3 motors for that reason.
Do you mean the issue where high kv motors with 10 poles would cut off at higher throttle commands or is this another issue?
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:39 PM   #46 (permalink)
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If less wiring is important nothing beats VControl/NEO and Scorpion Tribunus SBEC ESC. Just add servos and go fly with full telemetry. Internal or external governor. Everything programmable from the transmitter including things like BEC voltage. No sensors, logging stamps or receiver needed.

I have one setup like this in a plane and it looks sweet. I don't fly 6S helicopters so a plane had to do this time. Hopefully the winter takes a break soon so I can fly it...

Best of all, the Tribunus 6S/120A ESC is only 170$
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:18 PM   #47 (permalink)
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castle gov is ok in the right conditions, meaning u spent the time to set the gain, and have it geared right in the sweet spot.

i tried an older ikon gov out and it was ok, easy to overspeed and lose all power afterword. Castle gov even handled over speeds better, yge is worse than castle at this IMO.

The castle gov loves to be loaded the whole time, unloading it all the time makes it under and over speed like mad.

The HW is still my favorite, its really hard to overspeed and can handle anything i can throw at it, while also requiring zero tuning besides a spool up.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:47 PM   #48 (permalink)
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The gov has nothing to do with the heli's ability to overspeed. That's all on you. Also, not sure when you tried the iKON gov but it's worlds ahead of what it used to be.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:22 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Also, when I tried HW the gov was total crap (firmware 4.0.02). Have they changed and improved it that much?
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:46 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Number View Post
The gov has nothing to do with the heli's ability to overspeed. That's all on you. Also, not sure when you tried the iKON gov but it's worlds ahead of what it used to be.
The governor can definitely control overspeeds. Now if you are driving the Heli towards the ground trying to overspeed, then no. Coming off the collective after a hard move, the gov should handle that with ease...
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:29 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Well in that case it's overshooting, NOT overspeeding. Castle gov is horrible for that and I've always had it overshoot after suddenly unloading the head. Vgov, Brain gov, and HW gov all handle it very well and don't overshoot.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:33 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Govs can not control main rotor overspeeds, but they can handle them differently.

Bad: Senses motor overspeed, brings down motor PWM in an attempt to get the rotor to slow down. Once you load it again, it bogs badly until it brings the rpm back up. Examples: YGE, Hobbywing.

Better: Senses motor overspeed, leaves PWM where it was in order to partially compensate for the sudden jolt on reloading the head. Examples: Kontronik, Castle.

Ideal: Senses motor overspeed, adjusts PWM according to stick movement before freewheel unit engages. Additionaly decreases rotor gains in order to prevent over-controlling. Example: VBar.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:41 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Johnny31297 View Post
Govs can not control main rotor overspeeds, but they can handle them differently.

Bad: Senses motor overspeed, brings down motor PWM in an attempt to get the rotor to slow down. Once you load it again, it bogs badly until it brings the rpm back up. Examples: YGE, Hobbywing .
Well, out of the 6+ helis I've had and flown equipped with HW gov I've never had any issues with that. They most certainly don't reduce PWM during an overspeed and do not bog way down and then overshoot.

Gaui X3, HW50, HW gov
Trex 550, HW100, HW gov
Trex 450, HW50, HW gov
Trex 470, HW50, HW gov (for a short time before switching to Brain gov)
Protos, HW130, HW gov
Trex 450 #2, HW50, HW gov


None of them show(ed) any hints of he behaviour you describe. Only time I've had that happen is with Castle gov on a Blade 700X which dropped PWM during and overspeed and bogged horribly, and with a HW in the wrong mode on Brain gov. Switched HW ESC modes and raised gain and it went away.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:47 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Cute. Mine did.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:58 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number View Post
Well in that case it's overshooting, NOT overspeeding. Castle gov is horrible for that and I've always had it overshoot after suddenly unloading the head. Vgov, Brain gov, and HW gov all handle it very well and don't overshoot.
Over speeding would be anytime the governor caused the RPM to increase unintentionally beyond a reasonable margin of error. Overshooting is the process in the control loop which caused the over speeding.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:00 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Rotor speed is overshooting the target

Overspeed is the intentional (or sometimes unintentional) speeding of the rotor caused by airflow through the rotor.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:06 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Cute. Mine did.
Nice meng
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:01 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garymac View Post
+1
no onboard gov can read collective input immediately as you give collective it read changes or load on the motor and response but there is always a delay no matter how quick the esc process and response

You could design an ESC with a collective channel input though. That would give you the best of both worlds, an ESC should be able to manage it's RPM more effectively than an external governor.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:19 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Johnny31297 View Post
Also, when I tried HW the gov was total crap (firmware 4.0.02). Have they changed and improved it that much?
Was yours a V3 HW? Word is the new V4s are far better than the older versions, so I think context as to which specific one was being used needs to be mentioned. I only have experience with the V4s at this point and I'm extremely happy with the performance vs. my Castle, but I dont fly like you do either so that does make a huge difference

This same thing occurs in all of these conversations whether ESC, FBL unit or whatever. Blanket statements get made, only to find out the experience is based on dated products or firmware and not current ones, or the OP has no understanding of proper gearing and setup, so no gov will ever work well for them. I've seen you fly and I trust you know how to properly set up a heli, so I dont worry so much about your opinion being skewed by poor setup.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:24 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayted View Post
Was yours a V3 HW? Word is the new V4s are far better than the older versions, so I think context as to which specific one was being used needs to be mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny31297 View Post
(firmware 4.0.02)
Also, 130A. Read my story over there: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=752833
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