Neuron Governor Setup / Recommendations

[Geco73]

Hello governor 3196 hz on goblin 700 is It normal,,, because at 60%gas have 2300 Rpm
Spoolup 50%gas

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[Thunder Fighter]

Originally Posted by Bungraman

Just created magic smoke while trying to adjust endpoints, not good. Looks like Scorpion motor and 1st stage pulley wheel has gone.

Gonna be a while before it gets back in the air .....

Bugger, you shouldn't be able to do anything to the system that would cause that. If the motor went did you check the bolts to make sure they weren't too long and touching the winds or that something didn't get into the motor while you were working on it.

Originally Posted by Airagitator

@ Thunder Fighter

Very good tutorial! Thats how it works.

Thanks, it's worked well for me. I'm going to try and help Thomas by seeing if I can add the info to the Wiki.

//Dennis.

[Avitus]

If it helps anyone:

Trying to calibrate your ESC to the Neuron fed by BEC using Bluetooth is probably a bad idea (you'll probably get an inadvertent spool-up):

I was trying to calibrate the ESC to my Neuron Throttle output using Bluetooth, but I was unable to enter the ESC programming mode (by starting up with the TX throttle fully up). The symptoms was that the swashplate made its little initialization dance, and then the motor would spool up (no damage, blades off and other precautions taken). (Probably because the ESC finished initializing before the the Neuron (powered via the BEC from the ESC), and in lack of a "full throttle" signal, it would just skip entering programming mode.

The solution to this was simply to use USB instead, to keep the Neuron powered and already initialized when the ESC was powered. Of course, if you use a separate FBL/RX-battery, the RX/Neuron will also stay powered on and you won't run into this problem.

[Airagitator]

Thanks!

[Jaso]

I just did my spool up with blades on and then rechecked the gov calibration had logged a figure . It is at 1872Hz. How do you know if this is set correctly ? I just spooled up to 55 % throttle at zero pitch but I sort of forgot to stop and couldn't help myself from do a short hover for about 10 seconds. Is this going to have stuffed up the calibration?
What is it even calibrating? Is it the fbl unit taking a measurement of resistance of the esc/battery system or what ?

It's no trouble really to clear the log and redo it with out the hover but now I'm left begging the question of what the calibration does ?

[Geco73]

Model?

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[Thunder Fighter]

Originally Posted by Jaso

I just did my spool up with blades on and then rechecked the gov calibration had logged a figure . It is at 1872Hz. How do you know if this is set correctly ? I just spooled up to 55 % throttle at zero pitch but I sort of forgot to stop and couldn't help myself from do a short hover for about 10 seconds. Is this going to have stuffed up the calibration?
What is it even calibrating? Is it the fbl unit taking a measurement of resistance of the esc/battery system or what ?

It's no trouble really to clear the log and redo it with out the hover but now I'm left begging the question of what the calibration does ?

Instead of putting in the gear ratio and motor poles the Neuron uses the throttle percentage it outputs and the RPM reading it gets back on the first spool as the scaling factor. It should be fine as is.

Just a note that whenever you clear it and set it up again you may need to adjust your curves in the TX to get the same headspeed that you were running as this number works with your Tx curve to set the headspeed.

//Dennis.

[Jaso]

Thanks Dennis.
I did clear it and redo the spool up just to see what difference it would make. It ended up changing from 1827 initial figure with the hover to1821without hover just a spool up to 0 pitch at 55% throttle. I stated to wrong figure in the other post.
So Dennis tell me if I have this right, If you don't use the same 50-60% throttle curve you will have a different throttle rpm for a given throttle percentage when re doing the calibration after clearing the check box? How is the required 50-60 % throttle required for calibration figured out? Does the state of charge of the lipo matter?

[Thunder Fighter]

I'm not really sure Jason, I've only ever calibrated on a full pack but know when I redid calibration at one stage I had to reset my Tx curves to get back to my headspeeds on the tach.

I prefer the method where you set gear ratio and poles and then set the headspeed in the software rather than having to get the tach out. I think Thomas did it to make it so you don't need to know your ratio or motor specs. At the very least I would like to be able to manually enter the value so I can keep it the same after I get everything where I want it.

//Dennis.

[Jaso]

Cool thanks again Dennis.

I'm very keen to get this in the air now and see how the fbl unit feels and tunes. I've had a pretty wild guess at some initial gain settings being that I'm using the neuron on a new KSE 3 blade G380 which seem to be a little problematic for initial tune to say the least, if you believe the reports on forums of late.
I'm guessing the lack of normal dampening on this head most likely is causing some growing pains in the little size Goblin. Spooling with no blades doing initial checks the airframe felt very vibe free and smooth so I'm hoping this is a good indicator for the Neuron to work with and get a nice tune faster rather than slower.

[Otatiaro]

Hello,

Originally Posted by Thunder Fighter

I'm not really sure Jason, I've only ever calibrated on a full pack but know when I redid calibration at one stage I had to reset my Tx curves to get back to my headspeeds on the tach.

I prefer the method where you set gear ratio and poles and then set the headspeed in the software rather than having to get the tach out. I think Thomas did it to make it so you don't need to know your ratio or motor specs. At the very least I would like to be able to manually enter the value so I can keep it the same after I get everything where I want it.

//Dennis.

What about being able to modify the figure in the software, and I give you (and put on the wiki) the formula to calculate the correct value depending on your setup ?

Thomas.

[Thunder Fighter]

Originally Posted by Otatiaro

Hello,



What about being able to modify the figure in the software, and I give you (and put on the wiki) the formula to calculate the correct value depending on your setup ?

Thomas.

Thomas that would be excellent. I have no problem with you keeping it easy for novice users so long as you can give us access to calculate and set the value as well.

//Dennis

[Otatiaro]

Hello,

Originally Posted by Avitus

I was trying to calibrate the ESC to my Neuron Throttle output using Bluetooth, but I was unable to enter the ESC programming mode (by starting up with the TX throttle fully up). The symptoms was that the swashplate made its little initialization dance, and then the motor would spool up (no damage, blades off and other precautions taken). (Probably because the ESC finished initializing before the the Neuron (powered via the BEC from the ESC), and in lack of a "full throttle" signal, it would just skip entering programming mode.

Exact, the Neuron sends implements its own arming feature, and bypasses the ESC arming by sending the low throttle value at startup.

This is because of scorpion ESCs, if they don't receive a valid input right after startup, they enter a kind of failure mode and never arm (you have to cycle power).

Thomas.

[Otatiaro]

Originally Posted by Thunder Fighter

Thomas that would be excellent. I have no problem with you keeping it easy for novice users so long as you can give us access to calculate and set the value as well.

//Dennis

For nitro with magnets on the engine shaft (clutch):

n = number of magnets
r = engine to main rotor ratio (usually around 8)

R = n * r

For nitro with magnets on the main rotor:

n = number of magnets

R = n

For brushless:

p = number of pole pairs (check your motor datasheet)
r = motor to main rotor ratio (usually around 8)

R = p * r

Ok now we have R (sensor to main rotor ratio), calculates F which is the main rotor speed at 100% throttle in Hertz.

The gov store frequency in Maestro is F * R.

Vice versa, the calculated speed at 100% is the gov store frequency shown in Maestro divided by R (and multiplied by 60 to get RPMs).

Example :

Let's say I have a Goblin 570 with a 20T pinion, that's a ratio of 10.3 (see http://www.goblin-helicopter.com/sho...ducts_id=25452) and a scorpion motor (first I found : http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Outrunner.html) which has 8 magnet poles (so 4 pairs).

R = 4 * 10.3 = 41.2

I want 2200 rpm at 100% throttle, that's 2200 / 60 = 36.6Hz.

So I need to set in Maestro the gov store frequency at 36.3 * 41.2 = 1511 Hz.

Other way around :

If Maestro shows 1700 Hz after I reset the gov store frequency and spooled up, the I can reverse the formula, RPM at 100% throttle would be 1700 * 60 / R = 1400 * 60 / 41.2 = 2476 rpm (so if I set throttle at 70% I should get 2476 * 0.70 = 1733 rpm).

Thomas.

PS : I hope I did not make any mistake, please tell it if your result is very different.

PS 2 : I'll make the gov store value read write in the next firmware.

[Thunder Fighter]

Thanks, makes sense to me when I read it. I will check it when I get home in a few weeks with the values I have in my 2 Neuron's against the throttle % and headspeeds.

Being able to keep it consistent is just as important as understanding how it is derived.

//Dennis.

[Geco73]

But is normal 3150 hz in goblin 700 t23 tx futaba 50%gas?

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[Thunder Fighter]

Originally Posted by Geco73

But is normal 3150 hz in goblin 700 t23 tx futaba 50%gas?

Plug the numbers in yourself and see. You need to know where your rpm pickup is coming from and your gear ratio. I could easily see it being at that value as where you have the RPM being picked up from will make a big difference.

If it's working correctly then don't worry, that is the positive of the method in the software. If it isn't working right then try clearing it and doing the first spoolup again and see what figure it goes too.

//Dennis

[Geco73]

Works well only that 63% already 2300 on the radio

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[Otatiaro]

Hello,

Originally Posted by Geco73

Works well only that 63% already 2300 on the radio

I just replied to your MP, please give us:
- the motor exact reference (with KV),
- pinion teeth count,
- helicopter (goblin 700 right ?)
- battery cells ?

So we can make the calculations and verify.

Thomas.

[unun]

Originally Posted by Otatiaro

Hello,



I just replied to your MP, please give us:
- the motor exact reference (with KV),
- pinion teeth count,
- helicopter (goblin 700 right ?)
- battery cells ?

So we can make the calculations and verify.

Thomas.

Hi, Thomas, please help also,

Sab goblin 500 sport
18T pinion
4025-1100kv
Hobbywing 100a v3
6s battery