Synergy E5S

[Codepox]

Last year I had a lot of fun flying my two Synergy E5 on 6S 550mm, but for this season I wanted more power and better autorotation performance.
The Synergy E5 is a very versatile platform that fly great on a big range of blade sizes: 550mm all the way to 716mm.
Winter was a perfect time to do some research and run a few numbers.
Matt offer 3 boom options to stretch the E5
- E5s boom (715mm)
- E6 boom (770mm)
- E7 boom (812mm)
As well as 3 options for tail ratio:
- 4.0 (52T/13T)
- 4.5 (54T/12T)
- 4.9 (54T/11T)

Assuming 106mm tail blades, the E5s boom is good for up to 606mm main blades.
I wanted to be able to use longer blades so I decided to go with the E6 boom. The most common configuration is to run the Rails 626mm but the boom is long enough to accept longer blades so instead I am using the SAB Thunderbolt 650mm.

Here is my configuration:
Synergy E5
- Motor: Scorpion 4035 560kV
- ESC: Hobbywing 130A V4
- Flight controller VBar Neo with UI Sensor and VControl
- Battery: 2x Pulse 6S 3700mah 65C (2x 585g)
- Main Blade: Thunderbolt 650mm
- Tail Blade: Thunderbolt 105mm
- Tail ratio 4.5 (54T/12T pinion)

I did quite a few tests and the 3700mah batteries is the smallest size I can use to get a proper CG and not have to mount the battery so forward that it interferes with the canopy.

Ready to fly, my E5S weight 9lbs and 12oz, what does this means for the disk loading?
9.75lbs = 4423g
the disk diameter is 650x2+141.5 = 1.442m
The disk surface is 1.633m2
And the disk loading is 2708g/m2

If we compare this to an E7se which typically weight around 11.5lbs.
With 696mm blades: 2x696+157=1.549m --> 1.884m2 --> 2767g/m2
With 716mm blades: 2x716+157=1.589m --> 1.983m2 --> 2630g/m2
So this is very interesting, the E5S with 650mm blades has a disk loading right between an E7se with 696mm and 716mm configuration.

Looking at the numbers, everything is looking very good.

I flew the E5s-650 a few times this week-end and it is fantastic, I am really very pleased with this configuration and cannot wait to fly more next week-end.

Here are some photos as well as a few build details:


Hobbywing 130A V4 ESC and Mikado UI Sensor


Battery packs are custom built with a piece of aluminum for rigidity.
I glued a couple of aluminum pieces at the bottom to match the holes in the carbon bottom frame so the packs register nicely in the same location every time and keep them from moving around


Battery strap stopper on the front, just a piece of carbon tube and fiber glass tape
N7 canopy slider in the front, makes putting the canopy on/off easier


Head turnbuckles
- Servo to swash: Synergy 766 Turnbuckle 43mm
- Swash to grip: turnbuckle 48mm


VBar Neo mounted in the back with the Mikado antenna holder


I use the N7 tail fin, direct fit and about 10mm longer.

[Freeskiken]

Awesome Heli. I love the E5 so versatile easy to stretch. It looks great !!

[Codepox]

Originally Posted by Freeskiken

Awesome Heli. I love the E5 so versatile easy to stretch. It looks great !!

Thanks.
I forgot to talk about the 3 possible tail ratios, I updated the first post.

[Freeskiken]

I have been interested in a E5 SS for awhile. I have been reasearching how to make a light 700 and what electronics I would use. I am very interested in your setup as well.

[Codepox]

Originally Posted by Freeskiken

I have been interested in a E5 SS for awhile. I have been reasearching how to make a light 700 and what electronics I would use. I am very interested in your setup as well.

I am also interested in a light 700 or close to a 700.
I took some measurements and with the E6 boom looks like I can run up to 685mm main with 105mm tail and still have 3 or 4mm of margin.
Spinblades has some 685mm (Same ones that Duncan Bossion uses)
http://www.empirerc.com/spinblades-b...mm-p-9728.html

I am thinking of giving them a try, the disk loading is:
With 685mm blades: 2x685+141.5=1.511m --> 1.795m2 --> 2465g/m2
That's the same disk loading as a Synergy 766 which auto like a dream.

Synergy 766 at 12.5lbs = 5670g:
Blades 766x2 + 192 = 1.724m --> 2.334m2 --> 2430g/m2

Has someone ran 685mm on an E5 with an E6 boom?
Or know what is the maximum blade size that can be safely run?

[Rob Cherry]

Using the 770mm E6 boom (now included in the E5s 626 stretch kit), interference with 106 tail blades would occur at high deflection running main blades that exceed 674mm.

Hope this helps...

At the point of running 685 blades you could always use the E7 boom/TT. I've been flying an E5ss (696) for over 3 years now using the E7 head/main gear, 4.9 tail, castle 160, scorpion 4525, and 4400 12s. It's a solid setup that handles a good beat down. 11.0 lbs, loading is 2640g/m2.

[Codepox]

Originally Posted by Rob Cherry

Using the 770mm E6 boom (now included in the E5s 626 stretch kit), interference with 106 tail blades would occur at high deflection running main blades that exceed 674mm.

Hope this helps...

At the point of running 685 blades you could always use the E7 boom/TT. I've been flying an E5ss (696) for over 3 years now using the E7 head/main gear, 4.9 tail, castle 160, scorpion 4525, and 4400 12s. It's a solid setup that handles a good beat down. 11.0 lbs, loading is 2640g/m2.

Thanks, I like it, I am going to use the E7 boom/TT and run the 696mm blades, that sounds like a fantastic setup.

[gwright]

Rob is a great pilot that can really throw down and fly very aggressive 3D, so if it survives his flying, it'll survive anything.
On the other end of the spectrum, for us old farts that don't have reflexes anymore, you can also setup a super light 700 with the E5. My E5S is using 6s/5500's and 606/106 tailblades,, forget the wieght on it, but my E5SS is 9 lbs 12oz on 12s/4350 and 696/116 tailblades. I'm using lighter servos, an edge HV80 esc, and bec pro. It's a very light setup that will auto for days, and has the grunt at lower rpms to do anything you want, but in a slower/smoother manner. I was using a 400kv hacker and headspeeds of 1250/1500/1750 but recently installed another Hacker, that is wound for 350kv. Didn't use the 1750 mode much, so this optimizes it for 1550/1250, and I have the top mode dropped to 1500. I find that is enough to do anything I want the way i fly anyway so why waste flight time with any excess rpms. I've only just started flying with this lower kv motor, but it looks promising. First few flights with it have been 11 minutes ea, using 3100mah (telemetry is nice as you don't have to wait on recharge to know how much fuel you used ). different strokes for different folks, and the E5 is versatile enough to fit everyone's needs at both ends of the spectrum.

[gwright]

Forgot to mention, for the lower rev setups I've also increased the tail ratio. Using a 20 tooth E7 gear at the rear of the torque tube, it only takes 5 or 10 minutes to modify it, plus some shims/spacers to get the mesh right, and both machines have 5.45 to one tail ratio. Tails are locked solid even with the high pitch ranges I'm currently using (16/16 )

[Dmaxison]

Originally Posted by gwright

Rob is a great pilot that can really throw down and fly very aggressive 3D, so if it survives his flying, it'll survive anything.
On the other end of the spectrum, for us old farts that don't have reflexes anymore, you can also setup a super light 700 with the E5. My E5S is using 6s/5500's and 606/106 tailblades,, forget the wieght on it, but my E5SS is 9 lbs 12oz on 12s/4350 and 696/116 tailblades. I'm using lighter servos, an edge HV80 esc, and bec pro. It's a very light setup that will auto for days, and has the grunt at lower rpms to do anything you want, but in a slower/smoother manner. I was using a 400kv hacker and headspeeds of 1250/1500/1750 but recently installed another Hacker, that is wound for 350kv. Didn't use the 1750 mode much, so this optimizes it for 1550/1250, and I have the top mode dropped to 1500. I find that is enough to do anything I want the way i fly anyway so why waste flight time with any excess rpms. I've only just started flying with this lower kv motor, but it looks promising. First few flights with it have been 11 minutes ea, using 3100mah (telemetry is nice as you don't have to wait on recharge to know how much fuel you used ). different strokes for different folks, and the E5 is versatile enough to fit everyone's needs at both ends of the spectrum.

Interesting! What are your stator specs for that Hacker motor?

[gwright]

Hacker currently sells the a50 "Turnado" in 10L, 12L, and 14L windings (10/12/14 turns and L is long can, there are also short can turnados). This motor is essentially a 16L, which drops it to around 350kv. I can't give you any more info as I don't have it. Someone else wound this for me

[Codepox]

Gary, thank for the all the info. Now I have the all spectrum from Rob's smack setup to your low head speed setup.
I am definitively going with the E5SS, already ordered the E7 boom, torque tube, ... and should receive them today.
I am going for something in between, targetting head speed of 1950rpm, here is what I have in mind:

E5SS (E7 boom)
Blades Rail 696/ Rail 106
Tail ratio 4.9 (54T/11T)
Main ratio 9.92 (12T/119T)
Motor Scorpion 4035 560kV (4.2kW motor)
ESC: Hobbywing 130A V4 (Integrated BEC)
Battery Pulse 2x 6S 3700mah 65C (585g each)
Flight controller VBar Neo with UI Sensor

My current setup with the 650 blades and same battery is 9lbs 12oz, with the longer tail boom and longer main blades it should still be under 10lbs which is pretty amazing, this is nitro disk loading territory. A Synergy N7 is typically 10.5lbs at the beginning of the flight and 9.5lbs at the end.

One thing to note, the Scorpion 4035 560kv is probably too much kv, I looked at my logs (rpm, throttle%, Amp, Voltage) and it can turn comfortably the 650 at 2200rpm.
With the 696 and a 10lbs bird, 1950-2000rpm is probably all I will ever need for my flying style, so the Scorpion 4035 500kV is probably a better choice, better torque and efficiency for this setup.

[Codepox]

Originally Posted by gwright

Hacker currently sells the a50 "Turnado" in 10L, 12L, and 14L windings (10/12/14 turns and L is long can, there are also short can turnados). This motor is essentially a 16L, which drops it to around 350kv. I can't give you any more info as I don't have it. Someone else wound this for me

Another option might be the Scorpion 4035 330kV, they are basically the same size and weight:
Hacker A50-14L : 555g
Scorpion 4035 330kV: 560g

[gwright]

the hacker a50 "turnado" (heli motor) is 455gm not 555.
If you want 1900~2000 you really need something in the 450kv range, or just shy of it. 450 time 44.4 volts, time 12 pinion, divided by 119 maingear, computes to 2014 possible.

[Codepox]

Originally Posted by gwright

the hacker a50 "turnado" (heli motor) is 455gm not 555.
If you want 1900~2000 you really need something in the 450kv range, or just shy of it. 450 time 44.4 volts, time 12 pinion, divided by 119 maingear, computes to 2014 possible.

You are right, I cannot read anymore, 105g lighter that's a big deal.

For the motor, that's a very interesting point.
I think I am going to wait to see the logs with the 560kv first, if there is enough margin on the throttle% before it starts to get pegged at 100% then 450kv is the way to go.

[Codepox]

Gary, one more thing, when you are running at 1500rpm with the 350kv motor, do you have a flat curve, a V curve or governed speed?

[gwright]

Governed headspeed

i use the white wire from the edge ESC as phase sensing for the cgy750 and use the cgy governer.

[Codepox]

Excellent, I am planning on using the governor of my flight controller too.
Thanks.

[gwright]

Originally Posted by Codepox

You are right, I cannot read anymore,

I know the feeling. supposed to wear multifocal contacts, or progressive glasses. I can't stand that, so I wear either my glasses which are in the middle script , and take them off to read,.. or wear my contacts (distance correction so I fly and golf better), and have to put reading glasses on. I'll turn 50 this summer and it allready sux getting old.