F3C and AMA Class I, II, and III Questions

[Phaedrus]

Here's the Yahoo Group Site:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Competition_Helilist/

[ClayK]

Thanks

[Foxden]

Gordie,

Paul Giles has been watching my son Steven fly for a while and is encouraging him to enter a few upcoming FAI/F3C events.

Is there anywhere I can get info and what the manevours are so I can get him practicing?, Are you going to be at the Port Charlotte Event? maybe Steven & I can get together with you, Erich, and Rolondo to discuss this further.

Thanks Gordie,

Clyde

[DavidH]

AMA Classes Rules and Regulations
Helicopter Class I, II, & III

http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/07...Helicopter.pdf


FAI/F3C Scroll down to Helicopter and download it.

http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4


David

[moving2time]

Has anyone put together a contest list for 2007? From what I have seen so far it looks pretty thin. I have been away fro a couple of years and want to get back out more regulary this year.

Thanks

[ErichF]

next and last contest, besides the Nats, this season is Nashville, June 22-24.

https://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=38802


Erich

[Brett Horton]

Does anyone use the hover offset function in the radio?

[Brett Horton]

Probably asked but I did not see it ....
Relating to head-speeds and conditions (Futaba)
The following are questions: (generic heli)
Normal - used for just take offs? head speed same as Idle 1? typical rates?
Idle 1 - Hovering head speed @ 1600 - 1700 ? used for hovering maneuvers low rates / lots of expo
Idle 2 - Upstairs setup, @1900 rates set accordanly... aerobatics

[DavidH]

Originally Posted by copterviews

Probably asked but I did not see it ....
Relating to head-speeds and conditions (Futaba)
The following are questions: (generic heli)
Normal - used for just take offs? head speed same as Idle 1? typical rates?
Idle 1 - Hovering head speed @ 1600 - 1700 ? used for hovering maneuvers low rates / lots of expo
Idle 2 - Upstairs setup, @1900 rates set accordanly... aerobatics

I used Normal flight condition for Hovering maneuvers. Headspeed 1400-1500 rpm range. I used expo about 30% on cyclics with 3 degs of deflection at full throw on cyclic. Rudder expo about 60%

Aerobatics I used two idle ups. One of them was just for rolls that I used a P mix to help keep them straight. I used 1900 plus rpm on the rotor head in the idle ups. About 20% expo on the cyclics and 80% expo on the rudder.

With that said, you will have to set up the model to what works best for you. I know from flying others contest setups, that what works for them does not feel the same to me. It is personal preference and ablity when it comes to contest setup.

David

[Brett Horton]

Thanks David,
So you do use "normal" conditions for Start up / shut down / Hovering correct.
The general concensus is around -2 - + 8 correct. (again personal feel)

[DavidH]

Yes I use Normal for start up and hovering. As for shutdown, if flying in AMA Class III or FAI F3C that requires an auto rotation at the end of the flight. The motor has to be dead ( not running) when the auto rotation is started. So never have worried about shut down.
As for shut down when just practicing , I have the engine idle on the left slider when in Throttle Hold. So I can pull the slider all the way down and kill the engine. The rest of the time, I just leave the digital trim for the idle alone once I get it set to idle.
You will need more that -2 to +8. If the wind is blowing hard, -2 is not going to hold the heli on the ground when landing between the hovering maneuvers. On my heli for F3C the normal hover pitch curve was -6 to +12. Idle up 1 and 2 is -8 to +11. Throttle hold is -8 to about +14. As for the idle up positive pitch,I just keep adding pitch till the motor will run consistent at the most positive pitch and the length of blades I am using at the time.

Brett
Nice pictures you had published in the article in Model Aviation of the BSRC field. If you have not seen it, I got my new issue yesterday.

David

[Brett Horton]

BSRC Field?
Do not remember?
Talking about Greenville area?
But thanks
Have not seen them yet......
I used to fly Pattern Fixed wing years ago with Kirk Grey..
Thinking about giving this a try as it works nicely with our business!

Again thanks for the advice.

[Brett Horton]

Man!!!
That was on of the first pictures I ever took! At least in the first year....
Taken back in april of 04.
Times have changed!
But not bad.
Old camera but still ok.
John Garst was the guy taking the pics!

[Brett Horton]

Yet another question.
Is there a trend to move over to 2.4 in this sector?
I am going to set up one of my "sport birds" for precision flying (3d is not my thing)
And also plan on setting this one up on 2.4.
Just curious.

[ErichF]

I have been flying 2.4 since a few weeks before the Nats this year. The Nats didn't have a whole lot on 2.4, but the modules were still pretty new then.

I think there is a large group of the sponsored guys moving to 2.4, at the bequest of their sponsors, Futaba and JR. I know most if not all the JR guys are flying Spektrum now. I think a lot of the Futaba guys are still on 50mhz with G3 tech.

[Brett Horton]

"at the bequest of their sponsors"
Is their a reason not to? Or reasons specific to F3C/AMA Flying?
I have heard mostly great things about 2.4....
I also have ulterior motives as well. (Test bed for my AP ships)

[ErichF]

No, not really, but the manufacturer's of course want to display their latest and greatest in 2.4 tech. Spektrum was used by the top 3 at the last Worlds.

Since it's the off season, I haven't had a chance to chat with my contest buddies lately (almost all of them are Futaba reps or sponsored). So, I don't have the latest 2.4 scoop on team Futaba. At the end of last season, I think all of them were still on 72 or 50mhz with 14MZs and G3.

[Brett Horton]

'Nother question,
I am thinking about getting a 90 machine for FAI, among the top contenders is the Vibe, but I seem to be finding discrepancies in pricing...... The Vibe 90 3D is available for MSRP $1099.00 for Horizon, but this can't be the machine that is being used for precision flying is it? I thought the Vibes where around $2000.00?? Is there a specific Vibe that is used for FAI style?

[ErichF]

The premier JR bird is the Sylphide C, which is about $1800-2100.

I know some guys doing well with the Vibe, however. The only issues that I don't care for in the Vibe for pattern flying are the fuel tank location (CG shift from nose to tail as fuel is consumed), and the gear train is a bit noisy. The head is more or less designed for 3D, with a narrow damper and grip spacing. With proper blades, short flybar, and good paddles, the Vibe can do well. Curtis is flying it for both 3D and Pattern.

The quality of the parts and machining is very good on the Vibe. While I don't fly one, I have built a few for others, including one for FAI F3C competition. Everything goes to together quite well, and no upgrades are required.

The only part I don't like in the construction is the tail gearbox and the torque tube. The Gearbox is attached to the tail boom tube with a series of set screws that can make alignment a pain. The Torque tube is rigidly attached at the gearbox (doesn't have a floating "dog-bone" style connection) also with set screws.

Overall, I think you would do well with the Vibe. Other machines to seriously consider include the Hirobo Evo 90 OP version, and the Avant Aurora, if becomes available. In the high end arena, I'm personal to the Kyosho Caliber 90. The Sylphide and Eagle 3 from Hirobo finish the upper three.

Happy Shopping!

[Brett Horton]

Yeah, the Sylphide is also on top of my list but parts availability, ( not that I plan on dumping it) scares me just a tad.

So you are saying there is only one Vibe kit, is this correct?

I have had great success with JR machines, I fly two GSR's on a daily basis, and there are dead reliable, as well as an Airskipper (50) which I am also very fond of. So I do want to stick with JR machines.