flight tuning

[anthony1]

so I have recently rearranged my fleet and I think i'm finally happy with my choices so now i have to start retuning , trouble is I don't remember or never knew the best way to go about it, I think i'm fairly competent with flying but tuning leaves a lot to be desired . what I would like to know is what procedure do you go through with a new model to tune it. I understand that this is a very broad question , but i'm sure there is an order to do things properly .
my procedure is once stable in a hover, check rudder in rate mode
adjust the rudder gain in avcs mode with piro's, funnels and backwards flying
then mild pitch pumps to check for rudder pre comp
that's when I get a little lost , I think I have the rudder tuning sorted , but head tuning I'm not sure what to tune and more importantly what to look for. so any advise will be greatly appreciated

[dpelletier]

I paying attention to this... I am also very interested in knowing :-)
The CGY750 is one of those units that you need to look at often just to remember the terms... and it has been a while for me

[shawnlh]

Sub'd

[anthony1]

I flew today with the intention of getting the tail completely dialed in , which I think I achieved , in rate mode it hovers hands off , in a pitch pump it goes up straight , in a funnel it doesn't make a lot of noise and backwards hurricane hold well, so next I tried a side on pitch pump and noticed that the ascent is vertical but at the top it dips the nose forward a little with negative collective , I think I should adjust the elevator comp to stop this , does this sound right?
Anthony

[Full Montee]

After rudder tuning it is of coarse time to tune the head.
Having a perfect CG, and having run through Nick Maxwell's V2 CGY videos that cover the items to work out on the bench it is time to further dial in the rotor head.
First up dial in the main gain for the rotor head.

If you haven't watched the videos, STOP now and go watch them.

Introduction to the CGY750 with V2.0 firmware by Futaba (2 min 49 sec)

CGY750 V2.0 Firmware Update: Basic & Expert Swash Programming (16 min 55 sec)

CGY750 V2.0 Firmware Update: Basic & Expert Flight Tuning (16 min 25 sec)

CGY750 V2.0 Firmware Update: Basic & Expert Tail Rudder Setup & Tuning (6 min 57 sec)

CGY750 V2.0 Firmware Update: Basic & Expert Governor Setup (8 min 56 sec)

I will add more over the weekend as I get time.

[anthony1]

yes I have watched the videos , but while I understand completely what is being said its hard to put it into practice . I fly alone so have no reference point, I know that when I do tik toks there is a wobble when I change collective but what is it actually doing and what do I adjust that's my quandary

[Full Montee]

Anthony, that's a question that can be worked on.
The style setting and gain have impact along with tuning of SWS.Rate.
Along with the servo speed, and health of dampers and bearings in the head.

What is your gain and style setting?
Have you done any optimization of SWS.Rate?

[anthony1]

my understanding of the style setting is the higher the number the more robotic the feel , or harder stops and more holding power the lower style setting will be less confined and a looser feeling , that is still set to 50%.
sws rate . I haven't touched .
servos are futaba bls 451's and seem to move fast on the bench .
I also haven't checked the dampeners but again they feel tight still and the bearings are fairly new

[shawnlh]

Fwiw, my style setting is set to 65% on my 700's, and feels nice there. Like you said, it's more locked, and I feel more connected. I'm using the stock Align dampers, and running BLS275 servos.

[Full Montee]

What is your gain setting?
What model heli is this?

Adjusting SWS.Rate is relatively easy and on a 3D bird with four-minute flights takes me two packs to complete.

The SWS.Rate that the manual recommends is a base, or some would say a starting point. Depending on your model and components choice you can further optimize this setting.

As Nick mentioned, you need to do flips and rolls. I usually choose flips since it is typically the slower of the two maneuvers due to heli mass and we are aiming to make rolls and flips an equal speed.

There are two settings involved when tuning the maximum flip and roll rate and also how much the CGY can compensate:
1. SWS.Rate (This controls the amount of throw allowed for Aileron and Elevator)
2. CYC.RtC1 or C2 if you have CondMenu enabled. (This sets the rate at which the model will flip and roll based open the pilot's input)

The items you need to review while tuning the two above settings are:
1. Roll.Max (This is the maximum roll rate attained since the last power up or reset)
2. Elev.Max (This is the maximum flip rate attained since the last power up or reset)

TUNING:
A. For this tuning, you must be comfortable with completing continuous flips and rolls.
B. When increasing SWS.Rate or CYC.RtC1 increase them a few points at a time. If increased too much the rotor blades are likely to make a lot of noise. This is a sign of blade stall and too much pitch for the heli.
C. Your Dual Rates must be set to 100 in both directions for your aileron, elevator, and rudder.

1. With a fresh battery or your fuel topped off bring your heli to a safe altitude to complete continuous flips.
2. Begin slowly and continuously flipping the model and continue flipping the model until you max out your stick throw and your model attains its max flip rate.
3. Stop flipping the model.
4. Land the model. Make sure not to complete any more flips or rolls so that the Elev.Max or Roll.Max represents your rates and not maneuvers completed afterward.
5. Check your Elev.Max rate.
- a. If the Elev.Max rate attained is less than the default 300d/s, increase the SWS.Rate by five points.
- b. If the Elev.Max rate attained was 300d/s, increase the CYC.RtC1 to 310d/s.
6. Reset the Elev.Max and Roll.Max readings.
7. Repeat Sets 1-6 until an increase in either 5A or 5B has no effect on the model.
- a. decrease SWS.Rate to the previous value that attained the max flip rate.

With SWS.Rate tuning complete you may notice that the Roll.Max and Elev.Max, when reviewed, are unequal.
The roll rate is likely to be faster than the flip rate due to the distribution of mass in our helicopters.
Adjust your CYC.RtC1 setting to match the lower of the two max rates recorded.
Further, adjust your CYC.RtC1 setting to your liking. This is not reducing the CGY's ability to compensate but rather how fast your model flips and rolls when you command it.

EXAMPLE:
I fly a Synergy E5 stretched to run 716mm main blades.
My CGY was running default settings except for SWS.Rate which was set to reach 9* as suggested for a baseline value for 700 size helis.
I began by completing continuous flips and then landed.
The model recorded a flip rate of 250d/s.
I increased my SWS.Rate by 5 points.
I reset the Elev.Max recorded value.
I did another set of continuous flips and then landed.
The model recorded a flip rate of 270d/s.
I increased my SWS.Rate by another 5 points.
I reset the Elev.Max recorded value.
I did another set of continuous flips and then landed.
The model recorded a flip rate of 280d/s.
I increased my SWS.Rate by another 5 points.
I reset the Elev.Max recorded value.
I did another set of continuous flips and then landed.
The model recorded a flip rate of 280d/s.
I lowered my SWS.Rate to the previous value as the increase had no positive effect on the maximum flip rate.
I then flew my model as I normally would and landed as needed to adjust my CYC.RtC1 to my liking.
I found my model could attain 280d/s flip, 285d/s roll, and that I liked 265d/s for both.

[anthony1]

I have three models with cgy's on them , a logo480xx, a gaui x5 and a synergy e5 stretched to 606mm blades , they all fly well with the stock settings but are not optimized, I will start with the logo 480 as this is the newest(to me) model
thank you very much this is exactly what I am looking for its very clear and easy to follow and understand and I think that I can accomplish this fairly quickly. I will let you know how I get on ,again thank you
Anthony

[anthony1]

so I started tuning my e5s (606mm blades) and ended up with a maximum of 306 degrees a second
Anthony

[anthony1]

so my understanding is 306d/s is the maximum I can reach ,to give me a little overhead in the control loop I should go with 280 d/s

[Full Montee]

It is not really about the overhead but rather how fast you want the model to flip and roll that is equal.
Equal being that both flip and roll measures the same rate.
If 280d/s is what you like than that is fine.
If you attained 306d/s on both flip and roll than setting to 300d/s would be fine if that is what you desire.

[anthony1]

oh , so then what I did is find the maximum rate that my airframe and setup will allow and anything over that is impossible to achieve . so if I adjust it to 300 d/s will both aileron and elevator achieve those speeds or will the aileron still be faster?
Anthony

[anthony1]

so what should I look for next?
Anthony

[Full Montee]

Originally Posted by anthony1

oh , so then what I did is find the maximum rate that my airframe and setup will allow and anything over that is impossible to achieve . so if I adjust it to 300 d/s will both aileron and elevator achieve those speeds or will the aileron still be faster?
Anthony

Yes, you found your current setup maximum.
Correct both aileron and elevator should attain 300d/s.
Due a quick check at the very beginning of a flight by doing continuous flips and rolls. Land and check Roll.Max and Elev.Max. I would expect them to be with an few degrees of each other.

[Full Montee]

Next I usually work ELE.Comp
However before that, if you haven't already, work on SpeedCmp.
SpeedCmp is a setting you work out on the bench.

From the manual ------------------
Speed compensation [default: 50%(H3-120), 0%(except H3-120)] [ranges: 0% ~ 100%]
For 120 degree CCPM all servos do not travel the same distance on elevator input. After setting the ELE-PIT and ELE-AIL parameters if during FAST movement of the elevator axis the swash plate is not staying level, use the Data (+/-) key to match all servo speeds (+ will slow the elevator servo – will reduce speed comp on elevator servo)
-------------------------------------------
Many models use the H3-120 setting. When adjusting SpeedCmp on the bench run the value to the maximum and minimum while continuously inputting forward and backward elevator. Watching the swash ball, it should be clear after hitting maximum what this setting does. I have seen more than one model with fast servos able to run values lower than the default.

Tuning ELE.Comp
The following tests are affected by wind and heavily affected by poor model CG. Test with no wind and triple check your model CG.
On a windless day complete large pitch pumps.
With the model in a side in orientation climb out roughly 30 or 40 feet.
Stop and then immediately start descending 30 or 40 feet.
Repeat three or four times and see which direction your models goes compared to your starting location.
Adjust ELE.Comp and check again.
I do this rather than stare the model down as I find it easier to see the model move in the general location than to stare at the nose or boom and see if it lifted or dropped.
You may need no adjustment or a very little since you completed the previous steps tuning SWS.Rate.

[anthony1]

so I went through the same procedure with the logo 480 . and ended up at just over 320 d/s but I like 300 d/s so I set it to that, next I went through the expert swash menu as suggested and levelled everything top and bottom (and middle) and then did the speed cmp , I went down to 30 at which point there is the smallest amount of movement in the ball that I can't get rid of . flying wise is much cleaner and in apitch pumpms there is a small forward movement. it actually goes up and comes down very straight but the nose dips a little when I change direction , do I adjust this out with ele comp? overall quite a big improvement in the stability of general flight
Anthony

[Dr.Ben]

Robert has done an excellent job of explaining things here.

Tell me; does the nose dip DOWN a little at the stop of an ascent?

Ben Minor