Is anyone using a spacer on the tail shaft?

[OrbitalGolem]

I replaced the tail shaft, tail box ("tail pulley base"), and tail pulley plate on my Forza and after 15-20 flights, I noticed that the tail shaft has a tiny amount of lateral play. It's almost like a bearing is going south, but the bearings are brand new. Another possibility is that the Loctite from the factory is not holding the bearing totally securely.

Is anyone using a spacer on the tail shaft and if so, where did you source it from?

[dogtooth]

I havent noticed any play , the tail works flawlessly though so I havent checked . did you crash tail first ? I have done that a couple of times , but didnt have to replace anything except the bearings . and tail nlades once.
the tail shaft is tough!

[Tigron]

I use spacer. From the beginning I have vibration problems with tail. I've replaced tail shaft (just in case) and had to use 2 of 3 supplied washers on it to prevent slopping. That didn't help against vibration though as I think the hub and blade holders are the source of it.
Also there were some faulty tail shafts with bend pulley (wrongly mounted) from the factory. I saw one in my friend's Forza and he replaced it.
Still Forza is a great heli. Just I wasn't lucky enough with mine. It flies great, but no self-leveling on my Skookum because of high vibration.

[OrbitalGolem]

Originally Posted by Tigron

I use spacer. From the beginning I have vibration problems with tail. I've replaced tail shaft (just in case) and had to use 2 of 3 supplied washers on it to prevent slopping. That didn't help against vibration though as I think the hub and blade holders are the source of it.
Also there were some faulty tail shafts with bend pulley (wrongly mounted) from the factory. I saw one in my friend's Forza and he replaced it.
Still Forza is a great heli. Just I wasn't lucky enough with mine. It flies great, but no self-leveling on my Skookum because of high vibration.

Great info. Yes, I think I had one of those warped pulleys on the original tail shaft. I noticed that the pulley would wobble slightly while the shaft spun. I'm now suspecting that's what destroyed the original tail bearings.

You mention that you used "supplied washers". Were these washers included with the kit? I didn't see any in my kit. Would you know the JR part number for those?

I agree about the vibration - even with new tail boom, belt, main gear, tail shaft, tail blades, tail box, tail end plate, and tail blades, I'm still having more trouble dialing in the AR7200BX tail behavior than with my Oxy 3 or 300 CFX. I replaced the stock DS3500G servo with a Savox servo with little improvement. I may need to move to an MKS HV9780 as a brute force solution.

[ACITceva]

I noticed this myself just the other day (after about 40 flights). I'm not sure if it's always had that lateral play or if I just hadn't noticed it until now.

It seems to be flying ok though.

[dogtooth]

you guys got me curious , so I checked . but I've got zero play , and the pulley is straight . now that i think of it , I did replace a tail grip hub once after a tail first crash . but this tail is so much easier to work on than the 450 pro .
the main gear as well . I dont even loosing the boom block to change it.
I just remove the jesus bolt and pull up the main shaft ,slide the belt off .
putting the belt back on is trickier but not bad .

[Tigron]

OrbitalGolem,
No, I didn't have spacers in heli kit, but they were included with the replacement tail shaft. I didn't see them as separate part either.
I advise you no to waste your time and money for new servo. The root of the problem is not there. It is better to spend money for more reliable FBL system. As far as I remember BeastX and AR7200BX were very vibration sensitive. Also for tail wagging issue I advise you to play with RPM and governor. My friend used to have the same problem. He used K-Bar mini (a copy of Vbar mini) with stock ESC and we couldn't solve tail issue, until he moved to HK YEP ESC and original Vbar NEO. Now he has no problem with tail at any RPM, as you can paly with governor gains in YEP. Note that Forza fly better with higher RPM (over 3000).
At the same time I use Skookum SK720 with no tail issue with stock motor and ESC even in high vibration condition. I can't use self-leveling but I can control the heli all the time. If I had SK540 without SL I'm sure I would tell that there is no issue with my heli.

[OrbitalGolem]

Originally Posted by Tigron

OrbitalGolem,
No, I didn't have spacers in heli kit, but they were included with the replacement tail shaft. I didn't see them as separate part either.
I advise you no to waste your time and money for new servo. The root of the problem is not there. It is better to spend money for more reliable FBL system. As far as I remember BeastX and AR7200BX were very vibration sensitive. Also for tail wagging issue I advise you to play with RPM and governor. My friend used to have the same problem. He used K-Bar mini (a copy of Vbar mini) with stock ESC and we couldn't solve tail issue, until he moved to HK YEP ESC and original Vbar NEO. Now he has no problem with tail at any RPM, as you can paly with governor gains in YEP. Note that Forza fly better with higher RPM (over 3000).
At the same time I use Skookum SK720 with no tail issue with stock motor and ESC even in high vibration condition. I can't use self-leveling but I can control the heli all the time. If I had SK540 without SL I'm sure I would tell that there is no issue with my heli.

Thanks for the info. I just picked up an iKON FBL and might try that in the Forza.

I use an MSH 60A ESC (identical to YGE 60A) - what governor gains is your friend using? I have the stock 3s 6-pole motor.

[Tigron]

My friend use HK YEP 40A. It is more than enough for stock 6-poles motor as its maximum continues consumption I estimate as approximately 36-38A.
Last time we set Forza up for him we put both P- and I-gains to minimum (0.7 & 0.02) and decreased tail gain in Vbar a little and it worked OK. I don't remember exact RPM we set, but it was something in a range of 2800-3300 RPM.
Also, as I told earlier, I have very good experience of using stock ESC with external RPM sensor (Hyperion or HobbyWing) and external Skookum governor.

[amphibia]

Originally Posted by OrbitalGolem

I replaced the tail shaft, tail box ("tail pulley base"), and tail pulley plate on my Forza and after 15-20 flights, I noticed that the tail shaft has a tiny amount of lateral play. It's almost like a bearing is going south, but the bearings are brand new. Another possibility is that the Loctite from the factory is not holding the bearing totally securely.

Is anyone using a spacer on the tail shaft and if so, where did you source it from?

Warning... one bearing on my 450ex tail shaft support actually went south within 10 flights. I replaced it with a NSK bearing.
As to the play, use a shim if you see necessary.

[dogtooth]

im using a yep 40 amp with 6cell motor , with about 250 flights on it . coupled with a robird gyro which are famous for being vib resistant .
its been good so far ,and the yep 40a costs 20 bucks to replace .
interestingly , on my tail there is no room for a spacer in the tail box .
it sounds like the dimensions are different o some of them .

[ACITceva]

Originally Posted by dogtooth

interestingly , on my tail there is no room for a spacer in the tail box .
it sounds like the dimensions are different o some of them .

I was looking at mine last night and as mentioned before I have a little play... but I can't imagine there's room in there for a spacer.

[Falung_69]

I also had to use a spacer
It was in the replacment tail shaft package and a little piece of paper saying some models may need these spacers , There was 2 in the pack so I used both and found that 2 was too tight , I ended up using only 1 , I did before using checked the slop on the shaft and there was play.

Checked the other 2 Forza and both did not have any sort of play at all , But my belt pulley on the old shaft nor the new shaft wobbled but like I said it did need 1 spacer

To check I loosened the belt and pulled on the tail hub in and out to feel play and there was none

But yes 1 out of my 3 needed these spacers

[ACITceva]

Originally Posted by Falung_69

I also had to use a spacer
It was in the replacment tail shaft package and a little piece of paper saying some models may need these spacers , There was 2 in the pack so I used both and found that 2 was too tight , I ended up using only 1 , I did before using checked the slop on the shaft and there was play.

Checked the other 2 Forza and both did not have any sort of play at all , But my belt pulley on the old shaft nor the new shaft wobbled but like I said it did need 1 spacer

To check I loosened the belt and pulled on the tail hub in and out to feel play and there was none

But yes 1 out of my 3 needed these spacers

Interesting. Just curious where you bought the replacement tail shaft from? I replaced mine at the beginning of the summer and it didn't come with spacers.

[Tigron]

I've bought mine from RC Japan and it came with spacers.

[ACITceva]

I just went and found my old tail shaft (the one that originally came with my kit) and took a look at it. I could barely see it because it was snug against the red pulley but there WAS a spacer there. I wasn't even sure and the only way I could get it off was to get under it with a knife.

When I replaced the tail shaft earlier this summer I hadn't moved the spacer onto the new shaft because I didn't know it existed and it apparently came out stuck to the old one (I remember now - out of the box the entire tail case came originally pre-assembled with the tail shaft installed in it so I guess the spacer was JR factory installed)

Anyway, I moved the spacer over to the new shaft and my lateral movement is gone. Just to be clear - this is what we're talking about right?

[Falung_69]

Also bought mine from Rc Japan
Yes lateral movement
1 out of 3 of mine had it

[Eric T]

I just wanted to bump this thread up to share something I found.

The replacement tail shaft comes with two plastic spacers. My Forza had developed some slop in the head- after many flights the main grips had developed lateral play on the spindle. I found that the spacers that come with the tail shaft solve this perfectly. If you put one each under the dampeners inside the main hub it takes up the play and keeps everything centered. Not any spacer will fit in there, and these are something Forza owners are likely to have around, so its win-win.