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Old 06-03-2015, 05:38 PM   #61
vertico
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Originally Posted by Johnny31297 View Post
Thank you! Shoot an ultra slow motion video!

I can do that!

I want to start building but i do wish to understand how the main shaft is made. I dont have a drill press and i have a feeling that might be a requirement to form this holes no?
Also i am not sure where to source the material for the shaft
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Old 06-03-2015, 07:05 PM   #62
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hey guys,

main shaft is regular spring steel, 97x4mm solid. first 2mm bore after 5mm (center) next 2mm bore after 5+72mm (center).

4mm spring steel is a massive main shaft for a 300 heli, and it requires really high quality drills and precise treatment. Drills made of tungsten carbide work very nice though. Regular HSS stuff will not get you far here...

again, i am planning to create build videos, but i can only spend limited time with this project. good chances i can do a video about building the rotor head this weekend.

cheers!
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Old 06-03-2015, 07:21 PM   #63
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I can do that!

I want to start building but i do wish to understand how the main shaft is made. I dont have a drill press and i have a feeling that might be a requirement to form this holes no?
Also i am not sure where to source the material for the shaft
Can't you use a existing main shaft on the market? i thought the blade 300 main shaft would fit
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:15 PM   #64
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@ Soccerjay: sorry, i doubt that. again, maximum compatibility with existing birds was not a design goal. to be clear, you will need a lathe, ideally a milling machine, tools, a bit of experience to build the Oblivion and all it's parts as i have designed it atm. If that is either yourself or someone from your flying club - you will need to decide i will provide the drawings and measurements of course, if people are interested.
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:31 PM   #65
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@ Soccerjay: sorry, i doubt that. again, maximum compatibility with existing birds was not a design goal. to be clear, you will need a lathe, ideally a milling machine, tools, a bit of experience to build the Oblivion and all it's parts as i have designed it atm. If that is either yourself or someone from your flying club - you will need to decide i will provide the drawings and measurements of course, if people are interested.
Unfortunately, that is going to be an immediate deal breaker for most people interested in building this heli. Just my opinion, but if you would like to see a fair amount of people sporting this heli, building it around off the shelf parts like the main shaft is a much wiser plan.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:38 PM   #66
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Unfortunately, that is going to be an immediate deal breaker for most people interested in building this heli. Just my opinion, but if you would like to see a fair amount of people sporting this heli, building it around off the shelf parts like the main shaft is a much wiser plan
unfortunate yes, impossible no, so happens I asked because I make main shafts. No one said if the main hub was rigid, there's a way to get 5 to one on the tail for low head speed flight, can't openly say too much just yet. criz, is the bit a 2mm or 2.2mm drill to do the holes? I'm pretty sure there's a standard equivalent to 2mm that's slightly over.
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:04 PM   #67
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unfortunate yes, impossible no, so happens I asked because I make main shafts. No one said if the main hub was rigid, there's a way to get 5 to one on the tail for low head speed flight, can't openly say too much just yet. criz, is the bit a 2mm or 2.2mm drill to do the holes? I'm pretty sure there's a standard equivalent to 2mm that's slightly over.
What's with all the secret squirrel shenanigans? It's not like we are talking about national security.
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Old 06-04-2015, 03:41 AM   #68
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@ KiloXray: it is actually pretty simple, it was a conscious decision. in this particular example, i could have gone for a main shaft off the shelf from somewhere, but would have lost the 3 point support in the chassis - and rigidity of the whole unit. same for swashplate: plenty of 120 models out there, but i wanted 140 to get the best possible performance out of those microservos. my aim was a no-compromise-design. if this means people will have to bug their friend at the flying club of folks like Icanfly to make them a main shaft off of a drawing - yea, that is how it is. something will come up, i want to focus on design and prototyping.

hope this makes sense to you.

@Icanfly: both holes are 2.0mm. i would actually be happy to have a source for these shafts, so i can spend less time on manufacturing and more on flying

cheers

edit: first build video is up:
Oblivion 300+ - Build series - Rotor head central hub (16 min 2 sec)

Last edited by criz; 06-04-2015 at 04:52 AM..
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Old 06-04-2015, 06:44 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by KiloXray View Post
Unfortunately, that is going to be an immediate deal breaker for most people interested in building this heli. Just my opinion, but if you would like to see a fair amount of people sporting this heli, building it around off the shelf parts like the main shaft is a much wiser plan.
I agree, you should have built in an existing part that is readily available. This part alone will not let me build the heli, and no one I know owns a milling machine or lathe, nor do I know of any local business that would be willing to do it. If you had used a typical main shaft with a slightly different design I bet you could have at least twice the number of helis flying, possible more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by criz View Post
@ Soccerjay: sorry, i doubt that. again, maximum compatibility with existing birds was not a design goal. to be clear, you will need a lathe, ideally a milling machine, tools, a bit of experience to build the Oblivion and all it's parts as i have designed it atm. If that is either yourself or someone from your flying club - you will need to decide i will provide the drawings and measurements of course, if people are interested.
I understand your ideas, but this will be the biggest turnoff in the entire project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by criz View Post
@ KiloXray: it is actually pretty simple, it was a conscious decision. in this particular example, i could have gone for a main shaft off the shelf from somewhere, but would have lost the 3 point support in the chassis - and rigidity of the whole unit. same for swashplate: plenty of 120 models out there, but i wanted 140 to get the best possible performance out of those microservos. my aim was a no-compromise-design. if this means people will have to bug their friend at the flying club of folks like Icanfly to make them a main shaft off of a drawing - yea, that is how it is. something will come up, i want to focus on design and prototyping.

hope this makes sense to you.
Sure it makes sense that you are focused on building and prototype but it does not make sense to turn down 90% of potential builders by forcing a custom made shaft. This could be one of the biggest setbacks in making it readily available and easy to source parts for.

P.S. I mean no harm or foul through any of these response I merely hope you consider my opinion as I feel it is a grave mistake since most heli flyers are ordinary people without expensive machines or a source to have parts made custom...
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Old 06-04-2015, 07:04 AM   #70
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I agree, you should have built in an existing part that is readily available. This part alone will not let me build the heli, and no one I know owns a milling machine or lathe, nor do I know of any local business that would be willing to do it. If you had used a typical main shaft with a slightly different design I bet you could have at least twice the number of helis flying, possible more...
Well...

Could be on purpose as well. Keep out the dilettantes and less than serious. If a "beta-tester" has to arrange for manufacture of a specific part on their own they are far more likely to be committed to the project and in it for the duration. Someone who can just buy parts is more likely to walk away when the next shiny thing shows up.

I think it's brilliant, as is the entire project. Finding a machine shop to mill one piece is a very low bar to entry for the serious but an effective stop for the less than.
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Old 06-04-2015, 07:15 AM   #71
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I highly doubt that was original intent, if he only wanted serious beta testers there are other ways to do that then make one single part hard to source. He simply wanted it for design sake and with beta testing there will always be those that drop out. It's open source so who cares if it's easy to source, it's "open" for a reason. The person interested has full will whether to continue or quit...

He also doesn't seem to be in plans for selling it so the final project should be relatively easy to get, or most won't be interested.

Even if he sells the shafts himself, I would want a source to get them rather than hope I can have it made somewhere.
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Old 06-04-2015, 07:32 AM   #72
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@ KiloXray: it is actually pretty simple, it was a conscious decision. in this particular example, i could have gone for a main shaft off the shelf from somewhere, but would have lost the 3 point support in the chassis - and rigidity of the whole unit. same for swashplate: plenty of 120 models out there, but i wanted 140 to get the best possible performance out of those microservos. my aim was a no-compromise-design. if this means people will have to bug their friend at the flying club of folks like Icanfly to make them a main shaft off of a drawing - yea, that is how it is. something will come up, i want to focus on design and prototyping.

hope this makes sense to you.
I don't really understand, to be honest. I think what you are saying is that there was not currently a main shaft on the market that met, what you perceived to be, the unchangeable design parameters of the heli. I suppose that makes sense.

I hope you don't think I am giving you are hard time. That isnt the intent. I am just thinking out loud. I am the "refiner" type. I hope you take what I am saying as constructive criticism. Or at least that you will take as what, I am sure, many potential builders might also be thinking.

I would actually really love to put one of these together, but I am not in a position to fab main shafts, so I have zero possibility of doing so. Kind of a bummer.
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:44 AM   #73
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What does it say that I want to actually design my own heli like this? I even tried to import the chassis to modify and study it but STLs are a pain.

I have the Solidworks skills. I've done CNC and manual machining. I have friends who have the tools.
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:57 AM   #74
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I don't really understand, to be honest. I think what you are saying is that there was not currently a main shaft on the market that met, what you perceived to be, the unchangeable design parameters of the heli. I suppose that makes sense.

I hope you don't think I am giving you are hard time. That isnt the intent. I am just thinking out loud. I am the "refiner" type. I hope you take what I am saying as constructive criticism. Or at least that you will take as what, I am sure, many potential builders might also be thinking.

I would actually really love to put one of these together, but I am not in a position to fab main shafts, so I have zero possibility of doing so. Kind of a bummer.
Here's a thought. Or two...

1. What else needs to be milled or alloy CNC'ed?
2. The model is downloadable.
3. What is keeping another person from rejigging it to take a 4mm or 5mm shaft from another heli?
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:05 AM   #75
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Well he didn't really make it for us, he made it for himself for fun and shared his great design. It would have been much easier to just buy the parts ready made but if he designed the heli around other parts it wouldn't have come out as good. I prefer it this way as it adds value and a sense of accomplishment to it, if you want ready get a oxy3

I will try to make one with some improvements of my own (might be unimprovements!) sometime but will first see how durable it is.
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:06 AM   #76
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Regarding the main shaft... it may be possible to have an automation company like Misumi make them. They will make virtually anything. As a 'group buy', they should be relatively inexpensive too.

Most any machine shop can make one too, but it probably wont be cheap.
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:07 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by spykez View Post
Here's a thought. Or two...

1. What else needs to be milled or alloy CNC'ed?
2. The model is downloadable.
3. What is keeping another person from rejigging it to take a 4mm or 5mm shaft from another heli?
All good questions. I think te idea of a downloadable model is very forward thing for sure. I applaud the effort as it leans into the future.

I would also add to that list of questions:
1) What sort of software (cost) would one have to aquire to alter the original design.
2) How much of a learning curve is there to master that software to the point where you could make effective and safe changes?
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:20 AM   #78
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All good questions. I think te idea of a downloadable model is very forward thing for sure. I applaud the effort as it leans into the future.

I would also add to that list of questions:
1) What sort of software (cost) would one have to aquire to alter the original design.
2) How much of a learning curve is there to master that software to the point where you could make effective and safe changes?
1. You can get freeCAD, its free or blender or anything else with .SLS files.

2. The learning curve is VERY steep, I'm in the process of learning freeCAD and it is very hard.
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:21 AM   #79
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I can recommend Autodesk Fusion360. It is free and quite good.
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:21 AM   #80
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Regarding the main shaft... it may be possible to have an automation company like Misumi make them. They will make virtually anything. As a 'group buy', they should be relatively inexpensive too.



Most any machine shop can make one too, but it probably wont be cheap.

I like this idea. I would be in for 10+ shafts/hubs if this happens.
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