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Main Forum - Helicopter Talk R/C Helicopters and the people who fly them. VENDOR TOPICS DO NOT GO HERE. Full Scale Heli threads go in OT please |
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05-22-2017, 05:59 PM | #101 (permalink) | ||
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Quote:
And AMA has been fighting the interpretative rule that tried to get an end run around that for a long time - if anyone had bothered to read the email from AMAGov they would have seen the note about AMA's own court case that has been pending the same court since 2014. Quote:
Since AMA was already trying to work at a higher level and get the entire interpretative rule struck to preserve language that would not only prevent this registration, but prevent ANY regulation of hobby RC, I think its ridiculous to claim AMA has not been involved. Like I said, a lot easier to gloat, complain and imagine giant conspiracies than it is to dig into understanding the real issues...
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05-22-2017, 07:03 PM | #102 (permalink) |
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So, they filed the petition in 2014. What did they do with it after that? Sit and hope for the best? Sure doesn't seem like they tried to stay on top of things. How was this ONE guy able to get it done so quickly when the whole of the AMA and their legal team apparently couldn't make any headway in three years?
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05-22-2017, 08:51 PM | #103 (permalink) | ||
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In Oct of 2015 the federal executive branch via transportation secretary Fox and FAA administrator Huerta announced the formation of the aviation rulemaking committee to study and make recommendations for model aircraft registration. One thing was patently clear especially if you watch the video of the press conference. The executive branch decided they were going to require registration. Watch Secretary Fox's face when asked specifically if this wasn't illegal per section 336
Last edited by Steve Graham; 05-25-2017 at 01:49 AM.. |
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05-22-2017, 09:03 PM | #104 (permalink) |
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Yes memory is a funny thing. It is often colored by our individual biases. Fortunately much of this has been recorded for posterity. What Rich Hanson said verbatim. "Registration of certain UAS that meet an appropriate threshold of weight capability and other safety factors makes sense" Those words were chosen very carefully. He does not use the term model aircraft. He does however use the term in the previous sentence to describe a community that for 80 years has operated safely in the NAS. Immediately afterwards he telegraphs the AMA's intentions to advocate allowing members to continue using AMA's current procedures as a method of compliance. Unfortunately when operating in this particular arena the AMA was but one voice among many stakeholders present. And as I've said their experience and input was ignored by the committee on several counts.
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05-22-2017, 09:04 PM | #105 (permalink) | |
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They couldn't get their case heard. Which if they are an advocacy group and they really want to fight this then they would jump behind the first person to take the case to trial that fits their agenda. If you are being ignored then you are somewhat ineffective at advocating. It is not an easy job and probably most folks are not cut out for it. This play nice stuff gets you no where. You need a carrot but also a stick. AMA is all carrot no stick. Last edited by xokia; 05-23-2017 at 11:22 AM.. |
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05-22-2017, 09:11 PM | #106 (permalink) |
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I feel the AMA for whatever reason wanted to talk it out nicely FAA. They really needed to be much firmer than that.
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05-22-2017, 09:17 PM | #107 (permalink) |
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They were hoping for automatic FAA registration with a AMA membership. Somewhat self serving.
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05-23-2017, 10:44 AM | #108 (permalink) |
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FAA Registration Regulation struck down
throughout history, man learned to dine with the bear rather than fight him.
sadly, much history and hard won experience has been lost in the age of lawsuits and social media Last edited by etherbatxx; 05-23-2017 at 11:37 AM.. |
05-23-2017, 11:00 AM | #109 (permalink) |
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Ole - Lay !!!! : or High Corumba !!!!! the Ta Da !!
Should of stayed doing what they are good at:
Selling Tucus Insurance Providing Free Good Guy Scholarships & Training Selling Tabloid Advertisement - Sales for the Other Guy Providing Salary Paying Expenses Building Maintenance Selling Bricks Purchasing flying site property in the central USA - The Mecca one must SEEK !! Maintenance of a Turf Farm They didn't even smell the Fish ?? SAM come Knocking ??? " Sure ! We can fix Your PROBLEM !!!! HEre- This will FIX IT ! Expert's - Spend $$$$$$ |
05-24-2017, 11:05 AM | #110 (permalink) |
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I can understand the AMA trying to work with the system instead of against it to gain a favorable position for its members. But in this case the registration requirement was a fairly obvious and blatant violation of the 2012 FAA reform act which stated in plain terms the FAA is not to regulate model aircraft.
Surely the AMA's legal end should have been aware the action was unlawful and challenged the FAA. If they're not willing to challenge even an obviously unlawful action against us they should just drop whatever legal team they maintain and withdraw any claim to represent our interests. |
05-24-2017, 03:41 PM | #111 (permalink) | |
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The problem here is you don't stop at the first road block that comes your way because folks will be throwing them in front of you constantly. You have to be willing to fight. Which means you start looking for alternative ways to get in front of a judge. Throwing your support behind someone who does have case is one of those ways. |
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05-24-2017, 05:45 PM | #112 (permalink) | ||
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05-24-2017, 05:52 PM | #113 (permalink) | |
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Out of curiosity: 1) Given the choice to sit on and advocate for the hobby during the ARC as a member of the committee OR sit outside in the street, what would you have done? 2) Below is a list of the members of the ARC for UAS registration. During the course of the ARC's deliberations what stick would you have used to convince some of the more powerful groups that recreational use registration should not be mandated? That I'm aware of we don't have a record of who did and did not support registration within the ARC as the FAA elected not to publish the proceedings. We know the AMA did not support registration as it was implemented. Still when it became law they recommended members comply or risk legal consequences. 3D Robotics (3DR) ● Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) ● Aerospace Industries Association (AIA) ● Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) ● Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) ● Amazon Prime Air ● Amazon Retail ● American Association of Airport Executives (AAAE) ● Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI) ● Best Buy ● Consumer Technology Association (CTA) ● DJI ● General Aviation Manufacturers Association (GAMA) ● GoogleX ● GoPro ● Helicopter Association International (HAI) ● International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) ● Management Association for Private Photogrammetric Surveyors (MAPPS) ● Measure ● National Association of State Aviation Officials (NASAO) ● National Business Aviation Association (NBAA) ● Parrot ● Precision Hawk ● Small UAV Coalition ● Walmart This battle is being fought in at least 3 different arenas: executive, legislative and judicial. The same strategy that works in one venue may result in complete failure in the other 2. |
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05-24-2017, 06:32 PM | #114 (permalink) | |
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I'm going to guess that is what was going on here the courts didnt want to hear challenges to the law hoping it would stand until other changes were made that made it legal. Or AMA made their case to broad. The little guy the court probably figured had no chance? How many groups take on the NRA? There is fear in just taking them on. Now granted AMA is way smaller but if you are a badger instead of bunny you are usually taken more seriously. Again AMA needs to start looking outside the box to get their cases in front of judges. And not just waiting for someone to give them their turn. In time these groups will respect the AMA instead of pushing them around. |
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05-24-2017, 07:47 PM | #115 (permalink) | |
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I asked you a question about the AMA's involvement in the executive/administrative process which you did not answer except in vague generalities. You responded with a question about the legal aspects of this battle. Unfortunately I'm not qualified or even informed enough to hazard an opinion as to why the AMA has made some of the choices they have in terms of legal action. The optics, on the surface, make it appear as if the AMA should have joined Taylor's lawsuit or even filed it themselves before he did. This makes it easy to monday morning quarterback especially given the outcome. A great many have done just that. I suspect Mr Taylor would have some thoughts for anyone who claims to know positively the outcome of ANY court case before the decision comes in. As far as waiting around for their turn the AMA has been fairly busy the last couple years just trying to address the many states and municipalities that have engaged in regulatory efforts aimed at recreational sUAS something that is clearly outside their legal domain. I'll ask again: What "Stick", your term, would you have used during the ARC deliberations to try and persuade the other members to change their votes? |
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05-24-2017, 10:06 PM | #116 (permalink) |
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well lucky me I never registered because I haven't flown for a year trying to find time to get back at it but need my business to get to normal here so I have a life
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05-24-2017, 10:26 PM | #117 (permalink) |
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If I remember correctly it was because the FAA kept throwing up roadblocks. I believe the last one was that they needed time to go through 30,000 feedback letters before they would be able to proceed which they apparently never bothered to do after getting the case stopped.
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05-24-2017, 10:33 PM | #118 (permalink) |
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I didn't read this thread but did the AMA do this or someone else?
Need to know if my dues are worth continuing to pay for.
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05-24-2017, 10:37 PM | #119 (permalink) |
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It was one guy named John Taylor. He had zero support from the AMA. He did it all on his own as an insurance attorney. He did the "impossible" in a about two months when the whole of the AMA couldn't (wouldn't) do it for about three years. Save your money, don't renew. I'm not.
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05-24-2017, 10:45 PM | #120 (permalink) |
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SO ??? Is their a Tax / a Tariff / a Permit / or like a Duck Stamp
We can purchase : Like a Hunting Permit ?? A Quota - a Bag Limit ? or something ?
Size and weight ?? When they is In Season Out of Season or spawning ? What is the limit's on sporting equipment ? Has the NRA got on to this gig yet for sportin purposes ?? What happens if you just wing em ?? Granny and Jeb is getting all Excited !! |
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