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Old 05-13-2013, 10:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Zero at Midstick and 450x

I want to setup my Blade 450x(beastx) for scale flying. I don't fly 3D or sports but my brain is so used to flying with zero at midstick as this gives me equal ascend and descend.
I tried flying 200 size heli using -2,5,10 pitch curve once and was not use to it at all.


Is it possible to setup/fly scale at zero at midstick? Also do I have to change my pitch cure? The Beastx setup regards that you set your heli for zero at midstick.

I am using stock throttle/pitch curve right now on Blade 450x.

0,30,60,60,60/ 100% flat for idle for Throttle curve.
30,40,50,75,100 / Linear for idle for Pitch Curve.

Just started on flying 450 size heli, trying to get use to this size. I'm being performing FFF, circuits and figure 8 on smaller heli no problem for two years. Realized 3D is not for me.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It takes a lot of getting used to. The main benefit is that you have the full range of stick movement to blend and soften the pitch changes from hover to full climb. Not all helicopters will hover at 5 degrees, some take more (heavy scale builds), others will hover at less (chassis only). Use something you are very familiar with to transition from one form of pitch management to the other. It is completely within most pilots' ability to do both provided they fly both on a regular basis. I need to do so for when I do repairs on regular pod and booms so that I don't forget. It has taken me a few months to get familiar with it and to gradually change the curves to put my forward flight at mid stick. A model will use a bit more pitch at hover than in forward flight and although it is subtle, it is there. I am also of the opinion that 3D is not my cup of tea, yet there are still skills to be gained by knowing how to do it. Hope this helps.

Don
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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So wait...you're setting 0 degree pitch at the low end (throttle stick all the way down)? I just set my pitch curves such that I have -5 degrees pitch below center stick (0 degrees pitch) ..otherwise the Pitch curve is the same as when I fly 3d.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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No, not quite. This is how I have three different scale helicopters set up right now. Each is slightly different and these were measured with a digital gauge so they are as accurate as I could get them.

Jet Ranger:
Cyclic - 7.5 degrees
Normal - 0, -1.6, 4.5, 7.8, 11.2
1,2,H - -4.8, 0, 4.5, 7.8, 11.2

AS350
Cyclic - 7.2 degrees
Normal - 0, 1, 4.7, 8, 11.5
1,2,H - -4.5, -1, 4.7, 8, 11.5

500MD TD
Cyclic - 7.8 degrees
Normal - 0, 0, 4.5, 7.8, 11.7
1,2,H - -4.6, 0, 4.5, 7.8, 11.7

Also shown are the amount of cyclic pitch I have for each model. If I take my Jet Ranger and AS350 and from a hover give them full collective pitch, they both climb at a very nice manageable rate and the motor doesn't bog down. I have also done that full pitch climb with the 500MD TD but not since I changed the motor to 12s and in that test, the motor did not bog down and only drew 38 amps doing that climb.

Those curves look very out of place but in reality the Idle 1,2, and H are straight lines and I have done some special work with the DX18 so that in normal, I start at 0 pitch and then intersect the regular curve and then it follows up to full collective. That is why some of them do no jive from the Normal to Idle curves.

The answer is yes, at 0 throttle in Normal, I have zero pitch and as I add throttle, the pitch is slowly added so at start up, there is never a transition from negative to positive pitch, which given the right conditions, will cause the nearly unrecoverable "Penguin Dance" and destruction or severe damage to the model. This is not the same situation as the slight shaking a helicopter does as it swings its blades out. That does not normally result in damage and if you are careful handling the helicopter after the first flight, the blades remain out and that wobble is gone on the next spool-up. Hope this helps.

Don
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I asked pretty much the same thing a couple of months back. See Rotoraddicts response, very informative.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1802525

Ryan
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes it is. I also learned a few things since that thread and that is why the very different settings posted here in May compared to January. The changes were not all at once but over a period of time and that helps with the transition. The owner of scalerchelis.com was really firm in his coaching of those making a transition to scale to never have a change-over from negative to positive pitch during spool-up as he has seen too many nice machines destroyed by that resonance that can happen rather fast. It is puzzling that a pod and boom helicopter is seldom hit by this vicious problem even though a vast majority of them have 3 to 4 degrees of negative pitch at the start of spool-up (all my pod and booms have negative pitch at start-up). There does not seem to be a direct reason, but you can be certain, it does happen. Take care.

Don
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Don I implemented the zero pitch in normal as my lowest pitch setting once I read your first post about it and havent looked back. Works very well and the machine does not bounce around nearly as much on spool up now.

Ryan
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I am now starting to work on the shut-down of the helicopter and the zero pitch in Normal mode plays an important roll in this. For the longest time, I have been using Throttle Hold to shut the heli down and it causes a "jump" as the motor is suddenly killed so there is a sudden change in torque, which makes the tail swing to the right. Now, I come in, land and lower the pitch to just below take-off pitch, which tends to keep the helicopter planted. Now, once the heli is solidly on the ground, I switch to Normal mode and lower the throttle and what a great look and sound it gives to the shut-down sequence with no sudden torque turn of the tail. Take care.

Don
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
I am now starting to work on the shut-down of the helicopter and the zero pitch in Normal mode plays an important roll in this. For the longest time, I have been using Throttle Hold to shut the heli down and it causes a "jump" as the motor is suddenly killed so there is a sudden change in torque, which makes the tail swing to the right. Now, I come in, land and lower the pitch to just below take-off pitch, which tends to keep the helicopter planted. Now, once the heli is solidly on the ground, I switch to Normal mode and lower the throttle and what a great look and sound it gives to the shut-down sequence with no sudden torque turn of the tail. Take care.

Don
Hey Don, I was looking at your numbers. I have a DX6i so I only have two flight settings 0 and 1. I use 0 as normal. I was told to have at least -2 on my pitch to make the bird come down if needed. I found at the scale weight I dont need it so my low stick is 0 pitch, mid stick set for hover and high stick is max +. I have my thro at 90% flat. I have both 0 and 1 set this way. I use TH to shut down and have had no problem. I do have different DR/Expo settings between 0 and 1. I realy like this setup. I had some planes many years ago. The radios of today just blow me away with all they can do. Change a setting in a sec. or two and if you dont like it change it again and settings are pretty much endless. I remember when the power in the planes for the sevros came from a rubber band and you had to guess at how much time you had with that and your fuel,LOL. I just want to point out that I think to many people get stuck on one setup. Play with those settings and have fun with it. WS
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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WS:

Part and parcel of having negative pitch is to allow for auto-rotation in the event of a motor failure. Zero pitch is not enough to create the airflow over the blades to keep them spinning, hence the amount of negative pitch on my setups. Although I have three possible settings, I only use Normal and Idle 1 as Idle 2 has a faster head speed for emergencies (really heavy winds, outrunning lightening, etc, ). However, if it is working for you, keep going. Take care.

Don
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Going try it this weekend on stock blade 450x.

Pitch curve 40,50,62.5,75,90
Throttle curve 0,25,80,80,80 / 80 flat idle
Travel adjust on pitch to 85%.

I am still new 450 size. I use these settings on mcpx bl and enjoyed it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Your next purchase should be a pitch gauge. It doesn't matter which one you get. The E-Flite works just as good as the Align and it almost a third less cost. If you want to go digital, look at the RC Logger unit for about 45 dollars. Both are a one time purchase and will last as long as you are in the sport. Numbers do not translate into specific angle degrees from one heli to the next as geometry changes drastically. Take care.

Don
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