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Low Head Speed Helicopters Low Head Speed Helicopter Setups and Flying info


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Old 03-02-2015, 01:42 PM   #1
Lars Linders
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Default Building "Faifa 6s"

I am going to build myself a new 700-size heli, based on a stock Kasama Srimok Faifa.
Love the low speed flights, cruising around and flying smooth figures.

My target is to fly it on 6s at 1000 rpm,
powered with a pyro 700-45, Jive 120hv and 6s 4000~5000mah lipo,
controlled with Torq servo's and a bd 3sx directly powered by a 2s 6,6v battery.
I also consider Spin blades.

First I'll completely rebuild the Faifa, because it's been crashed.

Any comment and help is appreciated.
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:36 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Linders View Post
I am going to build myself a new 700-size heli, based on a stock Kasama Srimok Faifa.
Love the low speed flights, cruising around and flying smooth figures.

My target is to fly it on 6s at 1000 rpm,
powered with a pyro 700-45, Jive 120hv and 6s 4000~5000mah lipo,
controlled with Torq servo's and a bd 3sx directly powered by a 2s 6,6v battery.
I also consider Spin blades.

First I'll completely rebuild the Faifa, because it's been crashed.

Any comment and help is appreciated.
I think the Faifa is certainly a good candidate for a great LHS machine. I have been running my TDR and Faifa at close to the same headspeeds and the Faifa is rock solid in a hover at about 1100 where the TDR wants to nod just a little (prob due to stiffer damping). The Faifa gives you as much collective as you want and a massive amount of tailrotor travel.

I think I'm at about 1300-1350 in idle up right now and at that speed it basically flies as normal. (I'm running it 12s with a low KV motor).

I did find the tail lacking power sometimes in FFF aerobatic moves, like for example a pirouette at the top of a loop, the tail would sometimes not be able to swing around smoothly. I had reduced the travel when I was running at higher headspeeds so I restored it to the full range of movement and fitted some rail 106 tails and it's pretty good now.

Setup is:
Hacker Turnado motor rewound for 420KV (using 11 tooth pinion)
PowerJive 120
Futaba BLS253s on the swash and Outrage 9188 on the tail
Edge 713s and rail 106s
Spartan VX1

I use mostly 4000mah LiPos, Turnigy, Haiyin and Optipower 4300 and 3500 (and sometimes even run two 2650mah packs on the top battery tray and still get 6 minutes of gentle flying).

--- Just to add, I'm sure it would work just fine on a Jive 80HV which is what I'm using on the TDR, amp draw is very low----
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Last edited by trillian; 03-05-2015 at 09:44 AM..
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:45 AM   #3
Roebellini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Linders View Post
I am going to build myself a new 700-size heli, based on a stock Kasama Srimok Faifa.
Love the low speed flights, cruising around and flying smooth figures.

My target is to fly it on 6s at 1000 rpm,
powered with a pyro 700-45, Jive 120hv and 6s 4000~5000mah lipo,
controlled with Torq servo's and a bd 3sx directly powered by a 2s 6,6v battery.
I also consider Spin blades.

First I'll completely rebuild the Faifa, because it's been crashed.

Any comment and help is appreciated.
I too enjoy low HS flying very much!

I have been flying my Faifa at low HS for some time and it is very manageable down to around about 800rpm but very comfortable at 1000.

Mine is powered by a Pyro 700-52
Helijive 120HV using the BEC which has always proved very reliable.
Futaba 255 on cyclic and 256 on tail.
Rail 716 and Rail 106 on tail.
Using Gens Ace 5000 and 5500 mah packs
Futaba CGY750 which I am changing right now to a MSH Brain just to compare..nothing wrong with the CGY750. I am awaiting delivery of the new Spirit gyro today which I am going to try out on my Dune. I have been reading a lot of good things about the Spirit and decided to find out for myself.

I fitted the all metal crown and pinion a while back which allows very precise meshing of these gears and has resulted in a reduction in gear noise.

The Faifa and the Dune are very versatile and both are very stable at low head speeds.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:20 AM   #4
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With the Faifa at 1000rpm I would run 115mm tails, but don't use all of the tail pitch travel, otherwise you'll stall them. You can also run a maximum of 710mm mains with 115mm tails on a Faifa.

The metal crown is smoother, though it's a lower ratio and I don't think you will have enough tail authority at 1000rpm, unless you're just floating around. The metal crown feels good above 1,900rpm, but below that the tail isn't as good. I've not had a full tail blowout yet, but the tail isn't as solid.

I've been wondering about the three blade tail for the Triabolo from RC-Tek and if it could be adapted to work with the Kasama slider.

http://www.rc-tek.com/store/i2rc-tbm...bly-p2319.html
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadders248 View Post

I've been wondering about the three blade tail for the Triabolo from RC-Tek and if it could be adapted to work with the Kasama slider.

http://www.rc-tek.com/store/i2rc-tbm...bly-p2319.html
There was someone on the minicopter Triabolo forum talking about having bought one of those three blade tails for a Faifa and then I think he said he ended up using it on the Triabolo. Soooooo, I don't know if he explored exactly what would be required to fit it or not. If I can find the thread I'll ask him. They do blow more air with shorter blades and are very smooth so if it can be made to fit properly it could be a very good solution for more tail power and less vibes.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:48 PM   #6
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I'll consider using a jive 80hv, because it's a lot cheaper and I'll also lose weight on the Faifa.
I also will consider different kind of tail blades, and I'll find out what works best for me. Thanks for the advise!

At first I'll rebuild the Faifa without upgrades, because I think it's smooth enough for my low profiled sportive flight style. I don't fly 3d, but the only thing I want to learn is flying big air and maybe some smooth figures. The fast 3d isn't my cup of thea.

A few days ago the crashed Faifa including the new spare parts have been delivered at my place. Maybe tomorrow I'll start to take apart the Faifa.

@roebellini,
do you also fly youre Faifa at 6s packs? If yes, can you tell me the total weight of it including the battery?

What kind of rx pack do you guys recommend? Should I take a large 2s 7.4v pack, maybe a 3650mah (156grams) or a 5000mah (200gr)? Of do you guys recommend a small one like a 1350mah (65gr) or 2550mah (113gr) pack?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll connect this Lipo rx pack directly to my electronics, so I'll try to autorotate it and land it safe if the motor stops.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:21 PM   #7
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I have a Jive 80HV on my TDR and it works extremely well. I'm also using JR8717s on the swash on the TDR and I had heard they were 'power hungry' servos. On all my helis with Kontronik ESCs I just use the internal BEC to power everything and I use a small 2000mah Eneloop pack as a buffer and backup.

If I remember correctly, my Faifa weighs right at 3kg with no main blades and no flight LiPos, for a 12s 4000mah setup it ends up at something like 4.7kg takeoff weight.

So on a single 5000mah 6s pack it should weigh under 4.4kg.
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:29 AM   #8
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Old 03-31-2015, 02:37 AM   #9
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Looking good Lars... didn't you want to start with the landing gear?
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Old 04-04-2015, 04:03 PM   #10
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Maybe I want to install the Srimok nitro landinggear. I'm thinking how to install it. If not, then I will install the landinggear like "rjhelijc" did on his Faifa.

I'm considering the Jeti system as tx. Can anybody tell me something about this radio?
I also consider the Master Mezon 130 esc. What do you think of this?
Is this also possible flying low rpm, like I ment earlier? Installing a 12s system, but fly at one 6s LiPo at half rpm? Do you guys think this is possible with the Mezon 130?
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Old 04-09-2015, 01:06 PM   #11
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Nobody using a Mezon esc for flying low rpm?
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Old 04-09-2015, 06:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Linders View Post
Nobody using a Mezon esc for flying low rpm?
In general, it shouldn't be a problem because if you have it setup for 12s then when you fly on 6s you will be at relatively high throttle %. So most ESCs should be OK.

If you wanted to run really low throttle on 12s then the ESCs with active freewheeling might be better but I also know that the Scorpion commander has been used for low headspeed.
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Old 04-13-2015, 12:57 PM   #13
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No my intention is to build it as a complete 12s machine, tuned at 2000rpm. Then I want to fly it only with one 6s lipo, so the rpm decreases by half to 1000.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:44 PM   #14
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Linders View Post
No my intention is to build it as a complete 12s machine, tuned at 2000rpm. Then I want to fly it only with one 6s lipo, so the rpm decreases by half to 1000.

At 1000 rpm your amp draw will be very low, so I would think just about any 120/130 amp ESC will be fine when running on 6s. So the stresses will be highest when running 12s at 2000.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:20 PM   #16
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That is one light weight looking heli. Ive never actually seen one with the canopy off. Looks very cool
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:12 AM   #17
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Guys, I need your advise again. Do you think my preference should go for a pyro 700-45 of a pyro 700-52? All this is calculated with a 120t main gear and a 12t motor gear.
My thoughts:
520kv x 24v(6s)= 12480rpm / 10:1(gear ratio)= 1248 rpm(100% throttle)
450kv x 24kv(6s)= 10800tpm / 10:1 (gear ratio)=1080 rpm(100% throttle)

I think I can play a little more with my rpm headspeeds when using the 520kv motor.
What are your thoughts?
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:23 AM   #18
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I would go for the 520v motor, it will give you more options.
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:06 AM   #19
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I would definitely go with a 520KV motor.

If I'm not mistaken I think 11 tooth is the smallest pinion Kasama makes for the Faifa?

Anyway, with 520 KV you have the option to run a bigger pinion and have a governed headspeed in the range you want. Any lower and I think you'll be stuck with headspeeds that are just too low for anything but mild circuits or scale type flying.
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Old 06-23-2015, 04:30 AM   #20
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Everything was calculated with a 12t motor gear. I also have a 13t motor gear, this will give me a 9,23:1 gear ratio.
If I use the 13t, I can make idle flight modes up to 1350 rpm.
The flight modes can be like this: idle1 75%(1000rpm), idle2 85%(1150rpm), idle3 100%(1350rpm).

I think with the 13t motor gear and the 520kv pyro, I certainly have more options indeed.
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