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Old 12-25-2016, 10:40 AM   #1
chipnseal
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Default What heli next after the K110?

I've been learning on the K110- flying for about a month now. Bought the Heli-X sim for Mac and have been having a ball. Time off now at Xmas so I've had the K110 out back on days with no wind.

So, fun stuff but what next? Is there a bigger K110-like heli? One that is as durable? Something I could use the X-6 TX with?

I've been a 'plank' RC flyer for a number of years and understand I need to practice, practice, practice with a heli whereas the RC plane can be easy by comparison.

Anyway, I've searched threads looking for "next step" advice. Maybe a 450/470 size? I do have a flying spot 5 minutes away so a 450 sized craft could be flown safely.

Any ideas? Any threads to suggest? Online sources? ( I bought the 110 from gearbest)

Chip
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Old 12-25-2016, 12:25 PM   #2
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If i was too do it all over it would probably go with a 380/470 or better yet a 500 size. The bigger sizes are easier to see and more forgiving and still be flown in smaller areas. Even the Gaui X3 or blade 360cfx are good helis to learn on but smaller and easier to lose orientation. I would steer clear of the much bigger helis for awhile, very dangerous be careful!
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Old 12-25-2016, 01:32 PM   #3
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Oxy3
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Old 12-25-2016, 01:57 PM   #4
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Oxy 3 is a very good helicopter that can be run on different battery sizes ,headspeeds,and stecthed easily to bigger blades and booms. Wish this helicopter was available when I started flying. Slightly biased lol ...I love the way they fly. At any rate your next choice would be easier to suggest with more info such as size and budget amount and if your up to building a kit.
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:23 PM   #5
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I guess a 450 or a 500 if you can afford to crash one ...

now a days investing in a good FBL with real rescue is key , with that you can skip the 450 stage IMO
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:26 PM   #6
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The above suggestions are great but if you don't want to build and don't mind a bit smaller you can't go wrong with a RTF 230S.
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:38 PM   #7
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If you want to stay with S-fhss then the blade 230 is out of the question.
Anything you get starting with the 300er oxy size your going to have to build yourself (unless it's used) and it's not really a cheap hobby .
The best price per crash helicopter at the moment to learn on or a "beater" it's called, is the new Align T-Rex 470x heli in the "P"(Plastic) version . It's priced cheaper as a clone and parts are reasonably priced and come in packs of at least 2 parts .
But the difference to your k110 is intimidating . These helis are not toys and at the 450 (and oxy3) class and above should be respected.
I actually would recommend a blade 230s and the newer dx6 from spektrum, but with any decision you make ,helifreaks can always help you out with your new heli from build to radio setup
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:18 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the great advice.
A couple of things-

Budget- I like my wife's advice- "get what you want"
I don't have any other $$ hobbies. No bassboat or golfing anymore so I'm not burning up gas money dragging a boat around or paying too much for 18 holes somewhere.

Kit build- I think I'm a tinkerer at heart. Have built up RC planes and understand motors, esc's, servos, etc. Competent with solder, too.
I'll have to keep reading and learning.

Size caution- I get it- There was a guy at my field that was flying a 500 sized (I think) heli that was pretty scary. He was probably too close to our group and didn't seem 100% in control. It crashed. I didn't see it happen but seconds later I saw the carnage... He was a new guy that needed to be over on the heli pad area....
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:38 PM   #9
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A kit build will teach you FBL and ESC programming as well. Keep that in mind. You don't just toss on a magic electronic box and it flies.

Any way you go I'm sure you will have a wonderful new year progressing in the hobby and participating here on HF.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:03 PM   #10
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The Align 470LP is a great budget option (aligntrexstore.com).

I love my Gaui X3

Whichever way you go, I'm sure you'll have a blast
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Old 12-26-2016, 05:33 AM   #11
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Well then if you have built planes and have experience with servos, esc , motors etc,and your a tinkerer then a T-Rex 470LP would be for you.
https://www.helidirect.com/align-t-r...c-version.html
that's a hell of a great price for the super combo .
and the dx6 here also :
https://www.helidirect.com/dx6-trans...-receiver.html
+1 satellite and you have all you need to get started.
BUT . . . i would still highly advise you to get the blade 230s with the dx6
and build the 470 on the side ;-) (check here in the for sale forums or ebay for a used 230s )
How much space do you have to fly ?
and what sim are you using at the moment ?
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Old 12-26-2016, 07:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipnseal View Post
Budget- I like my wife's advice- "get what you want"
Ohhh man, get what you want means spend as little as possible in woman speak.

IMO get a solid radio, I like the Devo 10 but the DX8 is great too. Then get a 230s to fly now and a 470LP kit to build slowly.
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Old 12-26-2016, 04:35 PM   #13
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How much space do you have to fly ?
and what sim are you using at the moment ?

Spacewise, I have a few places - mostly soccer fields adjacent to farmland. Big open parks. There is even a nice RC club field 15 minutes away that I 'could join'. (should probably join the club - not sure of the heli activity other than there is a heli pad or two on the property.

Sim? I bought the heli-x sim for Mac OS. I have an old Hitec Flash 5 that works fine. I've been using the advice from others here on HF. Learn to hover from all angles. Use the hover practice on the sim. I can tell I'm getting better.

I like the idea of the 230S and 470 build on the side...

Here is a 230s for sale here on HF...Good deal?
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...highlight=230s

"Get what you want" - my wife is great - she has a lot of shoes...( a LOT )

Thanks guys!

Last edited by chipnseal; 12-26-2016 at 05:02 PM.. Reason: adding link
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Old 12-27-2016, 05:40 AM   #14
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That's the night version with lights, you might want to check the Bay for the normal version.
The 230s and the 470LP you'll have no problems then with space.
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:33 PM   #15
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If I was in your place I would go with either the 470lp or build an X3. I've owned the X3 and it's a solid platform. Can you get align parts locally that would be my reason to go with that I've the X3.

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Old 01-01-2017, 05:08 PM   #16
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Lots of excellent advice already, so I'll just offer a couple of quick thoughts...

I would forget trying to stay with the X-6 transmitter for a larger heli; it just doesn't have the range to use at a real field, and it also doesn't have a timer... Now that you have the bug, you need to invest $200 to $300 for a full-featured Tx, or a little less if you buy used.

You should absolutely check out the club, especially since it's that close! Local experience is invaluable, and you might even make some new friends.

I was in your position a year ago and couldn't decide between the 230s and Oxy 3, so I did both. The 230s is not nearly as intimidating when you are moving up from a micro, but it's also really fun to build a kit - especially given you have the skills and interest. A good kit will also have a broader flight envelope than the 230s, although you may not need the upper end for awhile.

It sounds like you have some excellent large spaces near you. Given that, I would suggest going for something bigger than the Oxy as your kit; the 470LP or an X3 (or X3L) would not be a bad option at all. TheX3 comes up used fairly option as well...
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:31 PM   #17
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Default Upgrading - a different approach

First get yourself a GOOD MINIMUM 8 channel latest release TX and spend 300-400 dollars. That will last you for many years.

Then, on the heli side.
Consider this approach.

All electric helis ( and airplanes) use LI-PO batteries and they are expensive as hell. In fact , over time they will turn out to be the most expensive part of the hobby, assuming you are not crashing your helis/ planes on a regular basis ( which you will do when learning).

Lipo's come in cell count from 1 cell through to 14 cells and mAH ( Milli-amp hours rating) from 100 to 20,000 mAh.
Translated in real US dollars from $ 5.00 to $500.00 or more. Their lifespan is calculated in how many times you can charge that unit.

Of course you also will need an appropriate charger and that depends on the size / capacity of the Lipo's you want to charge. Assume $200.00 dollars for a Power supply / charger and cable combination.

A heli up to the size of a 500 can be run with a 4-5-6 cell Lipo typically from 1800- 3600 mAH. These Lipo's cost 40-60 dollars each and you will need 4 at a minimum.

Heli's over size 500 typically run 12 Cell LIPO's or 2 x 6 Cell LIPO' s in tandem. The 12 cell will set you back $100-150 dollars and you will need 4 of them too. ( or 8 x 6 cell)

Maintenance of these heli's is really based on crash costs
size 100-500 Crash cost 100-150 dollars
size 550 800 Crash Cost 250 + dollars ( blades alone would be 150 dollars).

So, with this as a guideline, figure out how much money you are willing to spend to buy and maintain them.

Personally, my maximum size is size 500 which has a good performance versus cost matrix.

Good luck!
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Old 01-02-2017, 01:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryR View Post
First get yourself a GOOD MINIMUM 8 channel latest release TX and spend 300-400 dollars. That will last you for many years.

Then, on the heli side.
Consider this approach.

All electric helis ( and airplanes) use LI-PO batteries and they are expensive as hell. In fact , over time they will turn out to be the most expensive part of the hobby, assuming you are not crashing your helis/ planes on a regular basis ( which you will do when learning).

Lipo's come in cell count from 1 cell through to 14 cells and mAH ( Milli-amp hours rating) from 100 to 20,000 mAh.
Translated in real US dollars from $ 5.00 to $500.00 or more. Their lifespan is calculated in how many times you can charge that unit.

Of course you also will need an appropriate charger and that depends on the size / capacity of the Lipo's you want to charge. Assume $200.00 dollars for a Power supply / charger and cable combination.

A heli up to the size of a 500 can be run with a 4-5-6 cell Lipo typically from 1800- 3600 mAH. These Lipo's cost 40-60 dollars each and you will need 4 at a minimum.

Heli's over size 500 typically run 12 Cell LIPO's or 2 x 6 Cell LIPO' s in tandem. The 12 cell will set you back $100-150 dollars and you will need 4 of them too. ( or 8 x 6 cell)

Maintenance of these heli's is really based on crash costs
size 100-500 Crash cost 100-150 dollars
size 550 800 Crash Cost 250 + dollars ( blades alone would be 150 dollars).

So, with this as a guideline, figure out how much money you are willing to spend to buy and maintain them.

Personally, my maximum size is size 500 which has a good performance versus cost matrix.

Good luck!
Excellent advise Harry.

One thing that can offset the cost of batteries is a compact generator.

I picked up the 154$ one from home depot and was able to use it today to charge my 4x6s 2650 packs in about 20 minutes. With a gallon of fuel you could probably charge those same packs 5 times, enough for 20 flights.

This was with a 1000w power supply by DSW(look him up on the resellers section)

And an iCharger 306b which can charge up to 30 amps

If you stay 500 size and lower you can generally run 6s 2600 and lower which is a big savings.

With 6s you can run a lower amp speed controller then say a 3s

Most of the 380 size helis which are a very common size now thrive on 6s

380 size will be significantly more intimidating

Then say an oxy 3. Which is also a great flier and really inexpensive kit to build and support

The bigger you build the more stable and the more visibility you will have but also the higher crash coat. Because of their weight, they have alot more inertia and do some real damage when the fall to earth. Check out some 700 size crash videos and you'll see what I mean. Smaller helis can "bounce" off the earth and generally do little damage.


But like Harry said. Figure out what you want to spend on the hobby. I am pretty frugal and buy stuff used.

For example, my DX8 is two years old and I paid 200 for it 2 years ago.


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Old 01-02-2017, 08:00 AM   #19
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Didn't see any mention of the 180cfx which is a excellent step between ultra micro and 300-450. Some people have no problem going from a nano/XK-110 to a 450 but others benefit from something in between.

A 450 can be intimidating after only flying tiny underpowered ultra micros, some even find the 180 a bit intimidating in comparison.

The 180 will introduce you to heli mechanics without having to go through an entire build and fbl setup so it eases you into the mechanical and electronic aspects of the hobby along with easing you into larger sizes.

Even many ppl that are mechanically inclined tend to be a bit ham fisted at first. If you're used to working on small intricate items you'll be fine, but if you're used to working on cars or other large/high torque applications then you're probably going to overtighten things at first.

180 was a great tool for me to get a feel for how to get things just right so everything stays together but still runs smooth. Also to get a handle on the extra power and flight characteristics of a more serious model.

These days the 180 feels like a wimpy little toy compared to my 450's but when I first stepped up to it from a nano cpx it seemed like a ferocious beast..lol

I learned a ton of valuable lessons from the 180 and let me make the usual noob mistakes with smaller consequences than a 450. Yes 180 parts are pricey but not killing a $25-40 set of blades every crash saves you a lot of money plus it's lighter weight minimizes crash damage as well.

Also greatly reduces the chance/severity of injury from the mistakes alot of us made in the air and on the bench when we were first getting started. It's a better stepping stone to 450's than the 230 which is just a overgrown ultra micro.

Oxy3 is a fantastic heli but it's size made it a bit of a wash for me. Cost is basically the same as a 450 and more importantly so is the space required to fly it. Ended up selling mine since I had to take it where I could fly a 450 so I ended up just flying a 450 since they're a little more stable/smooth and easier to see.

As far as transmitters and chargers go, yeah you can run out and drop $600+ on a tx and charging setup if you're gung ho about the hobby but a $50-60 dx6i out of the classifieds and a decent 1-6s 50-80w charger for $50 can have you flying 450's just fine for as long as you want.

You don't have to have a 8ch tx right off the bat if ever. I still use the 6i and have no plans on upgrading. Does everything I need it too, I don't care about rescue and there are tricks to overcoming its lack of channels/features if you do want rescue or whatever.
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:47 AM   #20
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Didn't see any mention of the 180cfx which is a excellent step between ultra micro and 300-450. Some people have no problem going from a nano/XK-110 to a 450 but others benefit from something in between.

A 450 can be intimidating after only flying tiny underpowered ultra micros, some even find the 180 a bit intimidating in comparison.

The 180 will introduce you to heli mechanics without having to go through an entire build and fbl setup so it eases you into the mechanical and electronic aspects of the hobby along with easing you into larger sizes.

Even many ppl that are mechanically inclined tend to be a bit ham fisted at first. If you're used to working on small intricate items you'll be fine, but if you're used to working on cars or other large/high torque applications then you're probably going to overtighten things at first.

180 was a great tool for me to get a feel for how to get things just right so everything stays together but still runs smooth. Also to get a handle on the extra power and flight characteristics of a more serious model.

These days the 180 feels like a wimpy little toy compared to my 450's but when I first stepped up to it from a nano cpx it seemed like a ferocious beast..lol

I learned a ton of valuable lessons from the 180 and let me make the usual noob mistakes with smaller consequences than a 450. Yes 180 parts are pricey but not killing a $25-40 set of blades every crash saves you a lot of money plus it's lighter weight minimizes crash damage as well.

Also greatly reduces the chance/severity of injury from the mistakes alot of us made in the air and on the bench when we were first getting started. It's a better stepping stone to 450's than the 230 which is just a overgrown ultra micro.

Oxy3 is a fantastic heli but it's size made it a bit of a wash for me. Cost is basically the same as a 450 and more importantly so is the space required to fly it. Ended up selling mine since I had to take it where I could fly a 450 so I ended up just flying a 450 since they're a little more stable/smooth and easier to see.

As far as transmitters and chargers go, yeah you can run out and drop $600+ on a tx and charging setup if you're gung ho about the hobby but a $50-60 dx6i out of the classifieds and a decent 1-6s 50-80w charger for $50 can have you flying 450's just fine for as long as you want.

You don't have to have a 8ch tx right off the bat if ever. I still use the 6i and have no plans on upgrading. Does everything I need it too, I don't care about rescue and there are tricks to overcoming its lack of channels/features if you do want rescue or whatever.
Great advice and input!

On the 180 CFX, to me that is the "new" generation Bade 130X. It can be ferocious ( you can tone it down) and it's really an expensive heli to buy and maintain for the size.
I have 3 of them and a bunch of spares. I guess my investment ( as I replaced the AR6xxx with IKON/Brain FBL giro's is $ 1,000.00 + but it is a competent performer and is , in my view, a real good step-up to the 450-500 size especially when you upgrade to an IKON because that will introduce you to a complex setup which is what you will get once you get to 380 size etc. So from that perspective it is a great trainer flying and setup / maintenance.
I think the 180 CFX is close in total cost to a 230 / 270 or 300 CFX or the 380 sizes from other mfg. Oxy / Align and Protos Mini.
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