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150 Class Electric Helicopters 150 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar. |
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01-18-2017, 01:13 PM | #1 (permalink) | ||
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Probable very serious bug in Align 150X firmware or Android APP
Hi everybody. I think that a colleague and me have come across a very serious bug in 150X firmware or, less likely, its Android application.
The facts: brand new 150X, and after about a dozen tuning flights, I consider I'm comfortable with the way it flies so I save the configuration in a file using the Android application. I still decide to tweak a bit more some parameters, but finally I decide to revert to the configuration saved in the file... and total disaster: after loading the configuration file, the aileron channel doesn't respond. I think that it may be a binding issue, so I rebind again, and things go worse: most of the times it fails to bind, when it success in binding, no activity is shown in any channel or even worse, spurious values seem to be received, making both main and tail rotors to spin randomly as can be seen in this video:
(The motor that is still heard when the main rotor stop spinning is the tail motor) I wasn't quite sure if loading the configuration file had something to do with the issue I was having until this afternoon a colleague phoned me and told me that he was having *exactly* the same problem. Typical workarounds such as reflashing firmware or downgrading to previous firmware version didn't fix the problem. Has anyone experienced anything like this? EDIT: After reading this thread https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=768146 again, I notice that the issue that describes GenericGuy it's very, very similar. First time I read this thread I didn't notice that in his first post he states that the problems began "After configuring and saving via APP". He talks about "saving" instead of "loading" the configuration... Maybe in the sequence he describes the second time he wrote "save" he actually wanted to say "load"? I suspect that he may be having the same issue as we do.
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ALZRC TRex 450 Pro DFC ALIGN TRex 500 ESP DFC ALIGN TRex 600E PRO DFC (Power booster) Goblin 500 Last edited by joanpeca; 01-19-2017 at 01:55 AM.. |
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01-19-2017, 10:47 AM | #2 (permalink) |
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Hmmm, interesting. Using Futaba and Android, my elevator stopped responding after 4 flights or so and I am pretty sure it happened after I saved a configuration just as you describe (mine quit working weeks ago and it has been sitting on the shelf waiting for a new GRS board as I thought that was the issue).
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01-19-2017, 04:38 PM | #3 (permalink) |
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Thanks for the information, ssmith512. Yes, it looks the same issue. Maybe it would be interesting making the opposed question, I mean:
Is there anybody who has used the load/save feature of the app, and then the helicopter kept working flawlessly after it?
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01-19-2017, 08:31 PM | #4 (permalink) |
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Yes I tried save/restore before (probably in FW 1.0.2) and it worked fine for me. But I haven't used it for weeks now since I'm now good with APP settings. Upon reading this, I'm afraid to try it out anyway. It definitely looks like some FW bug or app bug...
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01-19-2017, 08:44 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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I have used the save feature all through out the initial set up. *maiden and set up/tweek flights* I want to say ive used the load feature once, but im not 100% certain
When i first started to set up this little guy i thought i would be a mans man and do it with out instructions, well i was having similar issues with binding and wrong inputs channels not responding I hate to ask, but did you setup per manual? However i do have a problem with the app/bluetooth connection. My normal/personal phone will connect no problem. My tablet wont pick it up about 50% time and i have to restart bluetooth then im good. My "work" phone will connect then the heli disconnects for 5-10 seconds, while app is still showing connection, then connection will come back. Not sure where the problem is, i would say the tablet is my problem in that situation but the heli with my work phone, but all of my devices work perfect with any other BT device. Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk Last edited by cduuuub; 01-19-2017 at 10:44 PM.. |
01-20-2017, 03:17 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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Well, as much as for my friend an me the problems began when we loaded the settings stored in the file... Every time I changed a parameter value that improved its flight characteristics I saved the configuration to file without any problem.
And yes, I downloaded the manual from Align and followed its guidelines step by step. In fact, I managed the heli to fly pretty well. I was able even of doing rolls and inverted rolls, maneuvers which are hard to do with those tiny birds due to their low weight and inertia. My dealer has reported this issue in detail to Align, hope they come with a solution soon. Regarding with your bluetooth connectivity issues, it's something that I have found with other systems too. I'm a MSH Brain user and I use cheap DX bluetooth modules with this system. Some modules causes problems linke the ones you describe with some Android devices. In fact, upgrading the Android version or reflashing an alternative ROM fixed my issues in some cases. It's just a matter of compatibility.
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01-21-2017, 12:31 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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Like i said im not 100% sure, but i remember doing a test flight coming down changing a couple settings at the same time, and it made the heli almost unflyable and i couldn't remember what i changed. so i think i loaded my previous save. Maybe i got lucky? Idk. Ill make sure NOT to use it until a solution has been found.
That kind of eases my mind a little about the b.t. i was thinking maybe it was the b.t. on the heli its self going bad. Kind of annoying some times but i can deal with it. |
01-28-2017, 01:06 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Well, my dealer reported these issues to Align last week but for some reason (Chinese new year?) it seems to me that they haven't paid much attention to her. So my friend and me have been investigating and carrying out some tests this week and finally we've found a workaround to the problem that we share with all of you, FYI.
The facts are: Android GRS application version 1.1.1, GRS firmware 1.1.1 too, internal Futaba S-FHSS receiver. - If you save configuration to file and later you load it from the file, very likely one or more channels won't read any value at all or, even worse, they will occasionally read spurious values, leading to behaviors like the one depicted in the video in the first post in this thread. - It may happen too that apparently the heli seems not to bind (alternate blue/red light). If this happens, it's not a binding error. It is that one of the channels affected by the issue above is the throttle channel, and the heli refuses to arm because it's not seeing a valid (close to zero) value in throttle channel. - Enter "Transmitter" section in the app, and check what channels are not responding. To bring these channels to life again, simply tap on "reverse" checkbox. You'll see they show activity again. Then you may want to reverse them again to leave them in their correct state. - Now, you must calibrate sticks (pay special attention to throttle channel), and once they're calibrated again, you should calibrate ESC in the "ESC" section of the application. Follow the instructions there and reboot the helicopter. - After all this, you may encounter another issue, consisting on that every time you boot the heli, it completely loses configuration (you may even find that the heli seems to be unbound from the transmitter again, but the reason is the some described before). We found that it's related to the value it sees at boot time in the throttle channel. GenericGuy reported this issue before (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=768146) and in fact he also found a relationship between this problem and the value seen in throttle channel at startup. To fix this issue, just make sure that every channel responds ok and make stick calibration again, then followed by ESC calibration. We are able to reproduce and fix these issues again as many times as we like. So we consider it's proved that is a very severe error in the application or, more likely, the firmware (or both). We don't know if this happens with other non-SFHSS transmitters. But for the moment, we suggest not to use the save/load feature. I hope Aling will address these issues in next firmware/app release, and that they won't take to long to do it.
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01-30-2017, 01:26 AM | #9 (permalink) |
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[EDIT: new data available turned inexact the original information given at this post, so I have completely rewritten it for the sake of clarity. My apologies if the original post resulted misleading for anyone who read it before]
Another thing that may happen after loading the configuration files is that attitude mode gives up working: the heli may drift/tilt in any direction when engaging attitude mode, regardless of the values set in the trimming parameters in the "Accelerometers" section of the app, parameters that randomly may read spurious values. If this happens, it's because accelerometers have became uncalibrated, and you just have to perform an accelerometers calibration procedure to address this issue following the procedure described in post #12, just three posts below. I think that this issue may be just a consequence of the problems described some post above regarding the channels. Since the procedure to calibrate accelerometers is started by lowering elevator channels to its minimum value for three seconds, and since spurious values may be read from some channels (for example, and why not, elevator) after they're messed by loading the configuration file, it's enough if for three seconds the heli sees the minimum value coming from this channel while it's messed. Then the heli begins the calibration procedure, and who knows if the heli is leveled or not when this happens. Of course, it may also happen that accelerometers calibration information could be messed by the load of the configuration, as well as the channel information is. Who knows...
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ALZRC TRex 450 Pro DFC ALIGN TRex 500 ESP DFC ALIGN TRex 600E PRO DFC (Power booster) Goblin 500 Last edited by joanpeca; 01-31-2017 at 01:33 PM.. Reason: Correct information after new data available |
01-30-2017, 12:58 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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After loading the old parameter file, did you do a gyro reset?
.
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01-30-2017, 01:26 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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Hi! Gyro reset? No, in fact, the only "reset" I can find in the app is the "Reset Factory Default" button in the "Parameter" section. To the best of my knowledge, it only resets the parameters in such section. It doesn't perform a true factory reset of the GRS unit. Is there any other reset option? I think that a true factory reset could be the solution to all those problems.
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01-30-2017, 03:04 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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From the manual on page 29. I should have called it a gyro calibration, not a reset. Hope this helps...........
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01-30-2017, 03:22 PM | #13 (permalink) |
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Very interesting, I overlooked that information! My problem seems to be related to accelerometers more than to gyrocopes, but I'll give it a shot. I'll make you know the results!
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01-31-2017, 01:47 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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Thanks so much prairie_ville for the pointer, that was it!! Just performed the calibration procedure and attitude mode came back to life again too! In fact, I have edited and fully rewritten my post #9 to reflect this new information, since the original description of the issue could be misleading, now that we know what happened.
And in fact, I'm pretty sure that what this procedure actually does is not a "gyro calibration" but an "accelerometers calibration". This is what in older systems, such as first version of MSH BRAIN was called a "SET LEVEL". The accelerometers sense where the ground is, because they are able to sense the 9'8m/s2 acceleration but... where should point the gravity vector when the heli is perfect level? How are the accelerometers orientated related to the heli? That is what this procedure does. It makes the GRS memorize where should be exactly the ground to set the heli perfectly level. Well, fortunately, my 150X is fully operative again
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01-31-2017, 06:16 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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I`ve done this procedure many times for normal flight mode, so it does effect gyro operation in my opinion. Glade it fixed your issues.........
.
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02-01-2017, 02:51 AM | #16 (permalink) |
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Yes, I forgot to mention that I also noticed that, but I rather think that GRS also uses accelerometers information during normal 3D flight. In fact, I think that I can prove this assumption with this test:
- Let's follow the calibration procedure with the heli deliberately unleveled. For example, put a book under the tail to tilt the heli fordward. - Once we have tricked the poor GRS unit, let's remove both motor plugs, in order to avoid them to spin - Put the heli in perfect horizontal level - Make sure throttle cut is engaged. Raise the throttle/pitch stick to where it should be while hovering, more or less... - Watch the swashplate. It's perfectly leveled, doesn't it? Ok, so now... - ... disengage throttle cut (don't worry, remember you have removed the motor plugs). The GRS thinks that the motors are spinning now (but they aren't) - Keep watching the swashplate. You'll notice that, very little by little, it begins to tilt compensating the orientation of the heli when you made the calibration. It's so little by little, that it's hard to see (but you can hear the servos moving) - Now engage throttle cut again. You'll see that about one second later suddenly the swashplate returns to its initial leveled orientation. It's now when it's clear that it moved. - Now you may want to make a correct calibration again ;-) My theory is that GRS makes sensor fusion maybe to filter vibrations, maybe to improve the gyroscopes precision, or just to improve its general performance. In fact, you can check that the swashplate behaves in different ways when motors are spinning and when they aren't: with both motor plugs removed, rise throttle stick so the GRS unit think it's flying and apply elevator or aileron input. You'll notice that the swash doesn't return to level when you center again the cyclic stick. Then engage throttle cut. The swashplate returns to level. Apply cyclic input again and you can check that the swashplate always return to level when cyclic stick is centered. Of course, this is just my theory about what the Align guys have done... The heli flies great and if they just fix the store/load bug I'll be more than happy :-)
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02-12-2017, 01:39 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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Could you tell me what the calibration proces for the ESC is? I am a bit hesitant to press the button without knowing up front what to do.
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02-12-2017, 03:24 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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The ESC calibration just performs a "zero throttle value learning". You set zero throttle value in the transmitter, press the button in the app, and then you must reboot the heli. When you insert the lipo again both motors play a chaotic melody for some seconds and when it's finished, the new zero value is stored into the ESC. Maximum value is not needed in any moment.
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02-18-2017, 12:08 AM | #19 (permalink) |
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New 150X GRS board...Many Problems...
...having problems, not Android so moved to new thread.
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