piro flips getting disc flat

[joecass2]

Originally Posted by Raptorapture

On point 1, I have the same issue. I believe it's due to a couple of causes.

Firstly, when initiating the piroflip there's time to have multiple aspects planned out including timing of collective. When going back over to upright one is focusing on stabilising while reinstating or continueing the flipping aspect and the timing isn't as easily planned.

Additionally, there is the commitment to the right or necessary amount of collective in the opposite direction which I find takes time to get used to.

Finally, there may be remnant downward momentum that hasn't yet been fully arrested which you may be also coping with.

How long have you been fighting this?

[joecass2]

Dose anyone know how to slow down the piro rate in phoenix sim?

[Raptorapture]

Originally Posted by joecass2

How long have you been fighting this?

Ever since trying to turn half piro flip to full, maybe 2 years. What can I say, slow learner Since flying the disc, ie tracking input to orientation, it's slowly going away. I notice that some compensate for this by having a semi pogo rhythm like a sine wave where one quarter is going up, one quarter down, repeat for second half of piro flip.

[joecass2]

Originally Posted by Raptorapture

Ever since trying to turn half piro flip to full, maybe 2 years. What can I say, slow learner Since flying the disc, ie tracking input to orientation, it's slowly going away. I notice that some compensate for this by having a semi pogo rhythm like a sine wave where one quarter is going up, one quarter down, repeat for second half of piro flip.

look at when I first stared this post been like 2 years for me to. I know what i have to work on and that's holding a piro hover after the flip. I also need to work on piro in one spot.

[Raptorapture]

I hadn't noticed the two year time-lapse. Reading back I had followed similar advice using rainbows given earlier in the thread but in the context of learning tictocs. From there I'm learning tictocs which is helping me tremendously in matching input to orientation when knife-edge. I'm hoping that in turn will facilitate keeping stationary piro moves in place.

[joecass2]

I can due elevator tic toc and move it around using the tail. I'm doing Alaron tic toc and can move it around using the tail and I'm just starting to put in elevator corrections when doing Alaron tic toc but still having ruff time with piro flips.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by joecass2

I can due elevator tic toc and move it around using the tail. I'm doing Alaron tic toc and can move it around using the tail and I'm just starting to put in elevator corrections when doing Alaron tic toc but still having ruff time with piro flips.

But can you move the tic-toc's around WITHOUT moving the tail?

Should be able to do it with fine cyclic adjustments so that you can point the tail where you want. This is how you get 4 and more point tic-tocs to stay put (even in the wind).

Good control in a tic-toc is as hard as good control in a piro-flip.

[joecass2]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

But can you move the tic-toc's around WITHOUT moving the tail?

Should be able to do it with fine cyclic adjustments so that you can point the tail where you want. This is how you get 4 and more point tic-tocs to stay put (even in the wind).

Good control in a tic-toc is as hard as good control in a piro-flip.

Yeah I still need some practice at this but getting much better.

[Kap'n Krunch]

Originally Posted by joecass2

Dose anyone know how to slow down the piro rate in phoenix sim?

I use the d/r in the radio

[neverland]

What helped develop my piro flips was doing them near the ground in phoenix. If you are too sloppy with bad technique here, the tail hits the ground constantly or you cant keep it stationary. I found myself doing them differently which included both flatening the disk more and developing better collective control and timing , ie less collective generally, so the heli wasnt pogoing up and down as much. other things ive found with good piro flips is the tail or nose generally has to rotate more than you think for correct timing and also not giving input at the correct, later time in the rotation, so the disk flattens out. You can definitely over input, so relaxing the input here helps alot. When you get timing spot on, the manuever is effortless and works beautifully and just sits there spinning like a ball and your not fighting it. Im mostly loving my piro flips now but its taken me more years than i like to remember lol

[joecass2]

Originally Posted by neverland

What helped develop my piro flips was doing them near the ground in phoenix. If you are too sloppy with bad technique here, the tail hits the ground constantly or you cant keep it stationary. I found myself doing them differently which included both flatening the disk more and developing better collective control and timing , ie less collective generally, so the heli wasnt pogoing up and down as much. other things ive found with good piro flips is the tail or nose generally has to rotate more than you think for correct timing and also not giving input at the correct, later time in the rotation, so the disk flattens out. You can definitely over input, so relaxing the input here helps alot. When you get timing spot on, the manuever is effortless and works beautifully and just sits there spinning like a ball and your not fighting it. Im mostly loving my piro flips now but its taken me more years than i like to remember lol

Thanks bro I will give that a shot.

[Raptorapture]

I practice low on the sim as well. Only trouble is I routinely find myself doing that at the field too! Recently I'm using the field on RF with grass at about 2 feet high that raises the deck while still having the same effect.

[Kap'n Krunch]

Just a thought practice piro wobble this definitely needs proper inputs to maintain a stationary position so it should help in gaining better control in correcting and getting the disc flat

[joecass2]

Originally Posted by Kap'n Krunch

Just a thought practice piro wobble this definitely needs proper inputs to maintain a stationary position so it should help in gaining better control in correcting and getting the disc flat

What is piro wobble can you post a video of that?

[Steve Graham]

I can show you a piro wobble if you come find me on my RF7.5 room. Steve's Helis. PM me for the Pw if you need it.

A piro wobble is nothing but a stationary piro hover that has cyclic stir inputs added to cause the heli to pitch and roll as it piros. Think of a top as it begins to lose speed and wobble before it finally falls over. It is closely related to a piro flip in the inputs. The difference is the cyclic stir rate is much faster than that required to flip the heli. Instead of flipping disc it is returned to level before it has time to exceed specific angles. The pilot varies the disc angle and wobble rate by varying the displacement of the cyclic stick and the stir rate.

[richardv]

Originally Posted by joecass2

What is piro wobble can you post a video of that?

Piro wobble

[Steve Graham]

Thanks Richard, I forgot about that resource. It's a very good reference.

One note on Jamie Robertsons video. He is doing a collective pump during the wobble that is not necessary. just an added bit of flair.

[joecass2]

thank you guys that is a nice web site. I will give the piro wobbles a shot. I fly most of the time by my self. The other day I was flying at lunch time and this guy was driving by and stopped to talk to me he seen me practicing piro flips and he was watching my fingers he said that I was not pulling down on elevator at all so with his little bit of help really got me close now. the funny thing is is i had no idea that I was missing down elevator input.

He said that im not that far away from doing piro flips. He also said that the first piro you need to give more cyclic stir then ones it gets going to back off a little.

[joecass2]

Here is were Im at with piro flips. sorry about the video first time using gopro.

whiplash gasser piro flips (2 min 47 sec)

[Steve Graham]

Just a tad too far to see really well for the cyclic timing. Looks like your doing well though. The heli is moving around a bit still. A strong focus on minimizing collective inputs and getting the timing of collective up/down sweeps will lock the heli right into a single position. Keep at it.