How to teach yourself to auto in 5 lessons

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by D.Berry

Thank-you rbort for this thorough automation tutorial. I am just getting into RC helicopters, have ordered a WLToys V977 to learn with, and hope to be into a 250, or 450 size scale heli before the end of Summer.
...

Do not learn to full auto a 250 or a 450. Keep those for 550 size and above (especially with scale as those are worse in the wing area to weight ratio).

Do baby auto (<1ft from ground) any RC heli. Numerous advantages. Ouce you are fully into scale flying and have the skills, then land with throttle if you really want.

Sorry I cannot give advice on body to build scale from. Ask around in other forums.

[D.Berry]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Do not learn to full auto a 250 or a 450. Keep those for 550 size and above (especially with scale as those are worse in the wing area to weight ratio).

Do baby auto (<1ft from ground) any RC heli. Numerous advantages. Ouce you are fully into scale flying and have the skills, then land with throttle if you really want.

Sorry I cannot give advice on body to build scale from. Ask around in other forums.

Appreciate your feedback about autorotation in helicopters < 550 size.

[grant22]

I plan on learning high altitude AR's soon and have an ESC question. I’ve converted all my birds to Hobbywing Platinum Pro esc's which have a rapid re-spool feature. Is it necessary to use that? Or is it a 'nice to have?

I’m already doing autos from 6’ to the ground, not respooling. If I start practicing autos from, let’s say 25’ and want to respool, am I better off respooling with normal soft restart or the rapid? I ask because I’m thinking with proper AR I’d have headspeed just from gliding down.

Thx in advance

[CFerry]

Originally Posted by grant22

I’m already doing autos from 6’ to the ground, not respooling. If I start practicing autos from, let’s say 25’ and want to respool, am I better off respooling with normal soft restart or the rapid? I ask because I’m thinking with proper AR I’d have headspeed just from gliding down.

Thx in advance

Rapid, for sure. If things aren't going well and you want to 'bail out' and continue flying, you want a quick spoolup. Maybe 1-2 second spoolup at most.

[rbort]

If you use the slow spool up I can take your helicopter,climb to 400 feet, hit throttle hold. As I start my way down, I can release throttle hold. I will do the auto almost all the way to the ground before the motor comes back up to speed to be able to carry the helicopter and fly away. It will take that long on slow spoolup -- several seconds.

You want the rapid setup for auto bailouts. If you are in idle up and hit hold, then release it, its rapid spoolup. If you land all the way to the ground, go back to normal mode then release throttle hold, then throttle back up with stick or idle up switch then its slow spoolup.

Good luck with the autos and enjoy! Remember to finesse the sticks no huge inputs and you will be OK.

-=>Raja.

[grant22]

Thx gents. Great advice.

[grant22]

Maaaaaaaan.......

A couple of us at the field are committed to learning autos. We’ve been doing baby autos for quite a while and are good there.

Today, we’ve tried autos from about 200’ and half way down respooled each time. It usually seemed to take way too long to respool, creating some near misses.

All helis involved have HW plat pros with a 15sec soft start, 25sec AR time, and 1sec accel time. Helis ranged from a 360 Fusion to an Align 760x. All have stock power.

Anyone have any ideas how to get a quicker bailout respool?

[lucasouthoffrance]

Originally Posted by grant22

Maaaaaaaan.......

A couple of us at the field are committed to learning autos. We’ve been doing baby autos for quite a while and are good there.

Today, we’ve tried autos from about 200’ and half way down respooled each time. It usually seemed to take way too long to respool, creating some near misses.

All helis involved have HW plat pros with a 15sec soft start, 25sec AR time, and 1sec accel time. Helis ranged from a 360 Fusion to an Align 760x. All have stock power.

Anyone have any ideas how to get a quicker bailout respool?

Hi, I'm doing similar auto learning and I have set a 1,5s spoolup on HW ESC,and it works well. Sometime it seems long but it's because you are descending quickly, you are stressed and you cannot estimate the spoolup duration easily (it always seems too long). Maybe ask a friend to measure it at the field beside you?
PS: my current way of working on autos is to set up a very low IU1 (1100rpm for 700 heli, around 1400rpm for 500s) and do autos like that, just switching to IU1 instead of THold. Normally you will be freewheeling from the top of the auto to the final flare, were you'll get enough power for hovering notouch dow), switching back to IU2 for climbing quickly and starting again. I find this method safer than the THold, and it is less stressing for the OWB. On my ESC thoses low HS correspond to 50/55 % throttle curve.
Happy flights,

[JimJW]

Originally Posted by grant22

All helis involved have HW plat pros with a 15sec soft start, 25sec AR time, and 1sec accel time. Helis ranged from a 360 Fusion to an Align 760x. All have stock power.

Anyone have any ideas how to get a quicker bailout respool?

What do you have your throttle hold set to during Autorotations? If you’re using the Hobbywing Governor, it should be between 25-40%. If you go below 25% then the ESC will do a ‘Soft-Start’ like when you initially start up.

See section 5 of the Manual, item 9 (read the description, not just the table)

https://www.hobbywing.com/products/e...tinum60AV4.pdf

If you’re using the FBL governor, then each FBL I suspect will be different as to the recommended throttle percentages.

[grant22]

My throttle hold is set to 0 throttle. My understanding (probably wrong) is that ar time was the window of opportunity to have a rapid restart when hold is switched on, then off. Outside of that time window, THEN it would soft start.

Sounds like that isn’t the case

So yes, I see that 25%-40% in the AR time instructions. If I set my AR time to 25s, Accel time to 1s, my throttle hold to 25%, are you saying I have 25 seconds to hit TH, where I’ll get a 25% HS idle, then hit TH again and have a rapid restart?

What happens outside of that 25s?
Also, will my TH ever function like a 0 TH? for example when I begin my flight and end my flight?

Sorry for the million questions, I just want to get this right.

[JimJW]

1). I’m assuming you’re using either the ELF or Store Gov on the Hobbywing. A FBL gov will be different.

2). If the ESC sees 0% throttle it will slow start. Period.

3). An Autorotation fast restart will happen if:
a). The Autorotation timer is not exceeded (less than 25 sec or whatever you set the time to)
—and—
b). The throttle is set to 25-40% to stop the motor for the autorotation. Something in the middle might be good, like 32-33%.

If the throttle goes to zero anytime during the autorotation or the timer is exceeded, a slow start will occur.

The FBL governor will

Hope that helps & happy autos

[JimJW]

One more note, what you might be missing is there is that an extra throttle setting is used:

1). Disarm: 0%
2). Autorotation throttle hold: (between 25-40%
3). Low headspeed
4). Med headspeed
5). High headspeed

If you’re not doing autos, it seems pretty normal not to have the second mode.

There are many different ways of achieving those curves and depends on your preference and your transmitter.

[P@reez]

For peace of mind you can test the AR bailout on the ground with both main and tail blades off. The fast spoolup is very obvious. I'm also curious to know what happens outside that 25s window. I don't use HW else would have tested myself.

[lucasouthoffrance]

Originally Posted by grant22

My throttle hold is set to 0 throttle. My understanding (probably wrong) is that ar time was the window of opportunity to have a rapid restart when hold is switched on, then off. Outside of that time window, THEN it would soft start.

Sounds like that isn’t the case

So yes, I see that 25%-40% in the AR time instructions. If I set my AR time to 25s, Accel time to 1s, my throttle hold to 25%, are you saying I have 25 seconds to hit TH, where I’ll get a 25% HS idle, then hit TH again and have a rapid restart?

What happens outside of that 25s?
Also, will my TH ever function like a 0 TH? for example when I begin my flight and end my flight?

Sorry for the million questions, I just want to get this right.

Hi, first I would like to be sure you are using the HW HELI GOV STORE mode, otherwise all those parameters (AR time, restart time, accel time) will not work. I guess it is the case, but it's better to be sure. By the way, have you correctly performed you RPM standardization?

Then, you are right when you say that "My understanding (probably wrong) is that AR time was the window of opportunity to have a rapid restart when hold is switched on, then off. Outside of that time window, THEN it would soft start", but to do so the THold value should be between 25 and 40% (not 0% as you set it; I personally use 30%).

Remind also that the motor will NOT start when the throttle signal is below 40% (as mentioned in ESC instructions).

A throttle value of 0% is seen by the ESC as a "throttle cut", which will be mandatorily followed by a soft start if your go back to a Throttle value higher than 40%.
That's the reason why it was taking too long during your tests...you were doing soft starts…

I personally program 2 different switches: one for TH and one for Throttle cut. It is a good safety feature before powering on your heli.

Another interesting thing to know is that the TH CUT switch allows going back to soft start after an autorotation started by switching THold. In fact, let’s say you have your AR time to 25s but you finished your auto after only 15s. You are on ground and want to go back in flight. In that case you shall NOT remove THold, otherwise your rotor will accelerate very fast (around 1,5s, see accel time parameter) and the heli will likely start spinning on the ground and get damaged. The safer way to proceed is to cycle the TH CUT switch to be sure that the ESC has seen 0 throttle signal. Doing that way you are sure to spool up slowly as soon as you remove TH.

For the next tests, I suggest setting the quick restart acceleration time to 1,5 default)or 2s to see how you like it. No need to be too hard on the one way bearing.
I hope it is a bit clearer. There is plenty of info in the HW section, I guess. And my English is not perfect too…in any case, when I started to learn I tested all those features on the bench without blades (mains and tails) to see how it worked without danger…

PS: concerning your question, at the end of a flight the TH (even set to 25 or 30%) does stop your motor completely. In addition, I always switch Throttle CUT just after landing to have 2 safety methods before approaching the model.

[grant22]

First, thx for all the feedback guys.

Yes, I’m using Gov Store, yes on rpm standardization.

Now I will figure out Ta way to do TH and Cut

I’m thinking I do a TH within my FM's and it’ll have the 25-40% throttle

Then use the throttle cut menu in my Spektrum for a throttle cut

Am I on track?

[grant22]

Or, maybe I can do just flight modes only (normal, IU1, IU2, TH) and with TH at 25%, since it’ll be less than any of my Throttle curve numbers, won’t spool up.

Then chance my Normal modes to 0% at bottom stick so it will initialize

Just spit balling

[lucasouthoffrance]

Originally Posted by grant22

First, thx for all the feedback guys.

Yes, I’m using Gov Store

Now I will figure out Ta way to do TH and Cut

I’m thinking I do a TH within my FM's and it’ll have the 25-40% throttle

Then use the throttle cut menu in my Spektrum for a throttle cut

Am I on track?

On spektrum TH is one of your flight modes, and you can assign it to a different switch. This leaves you 3 flight modes for your various head speeds. Throttle cut can be set in its specific spektrum menu...

[grant22]

Thx very much. I’ll try that option.

Additionally, you guys say that 25-40% will not give me 'power', let’s say, but does give a throttle signal.

Do u all know if the esc will initialize with Thr Hold ON, with 25-40%. If it won’t, do you know a way to make the transmitter/esc initialize with that value? I’d like to look into maintaining a 1 switch method here

[lucasouthoffrance]

Originally Posted by grant22

Thx very much. I’ll try that option.

Additionally, you guys say that 25-40% will not give me 'power', let’s say, but does give a throttle signal.

Do u all know if the esc will initialize with Thr Hold ON, with 25-40%. If it won’t, do you know a way to make the transmitter/esc initialize with that value? I’d like to look into maintaining a 1 switch method here

Sorry I never tried... But even if it could initialise, for me the throttle cut is a must have, I need a double safety feature and a method to force slow spool up. If you have a spare switch it is not a big effort and could save you money (and more) down the road...

[grant22]

Roger that

Thx much