It begins, the SAB clones have arrived.

[R_Lefebvre]

Interesting. I absolutely love my Goblin 380, best heli design ever, IMO.

I wouldn't be much interested in a clone... except for some crazy experiments I'd like to try (Eurocopter X3 style compound helicopter) that I don't want to pay SAB money for a kit. Hmmm...

[gunny_jeeves]

Has anyone got any experience with ALZRC helis? In general, are they any good?

If they sell this thing at $275, they're cracked in the head. At the least it's an interesting development. Next few months should be a trip! The canopies look awesome though.

[Atomic Skull]

Did anyone else notice this in the Goblin 630 Competition manual?



Hobbyking stuff, really?

[HeliAxe]

Originally Posted by kavic5150

I have a fairly fine tuned Protos 500 thats all decked out for night flying. And it has a flybar. With its 12s custom motor I have no lack for power, but I can also cruise at low HS for 8:30 and land with 3.75v in each cell.

How would your packs be doing around the 8 minute mark?

Relax tiger. I was generalising...

[HeliAxe]

Ha ha Atomic Skull. Well spotted. I for one did not notice that... too funny

[TT]

Originally Posted by Atomic Skull

Keep the helicopter I'll take the girl.

Where I live she's about a 5 1/2.

Originally Posted by Atomic Skull

Did anyone else notice this in the Goblin 630 Competition manual?

Hahaha! Had to save on the shrink tubing to pay for that Kontronik ESC. I must admit, Turnigy makes some nice shrink tubing!

[BeamHangar]

...It's amusing to watch the "clone" debate in our hobby when i am CERTAIN that those whom cry loudest against it surely don't own "original" company versions of either TV's or Refrigerators or all drive a Benz model Velo....

Lots of high horses in a hobby....jmo....

If we were left to "only buy original" there'd be more unemployed than what we have...or we would ALL be living in the same shadow as our neighbor...thank goodness for diversity...

BH

[Atomic Skull]

Originally Posted by TT

Where I live she's about a 5 1/2.




Hahaha! Had to save on the shrink tubing to pay for that Kontronik ESC. I must admit, Turnigy makes some nice shrink tubing!

Nothing wrong with their wire, shrink tubing, etc. I just found it surprising that it would be in a SAB manual given that they and a bunch of other companies pulled out of 3D masters to protest to HK's involvement.

Originally Posted by BeamHangar

...It's amusing to watch the "clone" debate in our hobby when i am CERTAIN that those whom cry loudest against it surely don't own "original" company versions of either TV's or Refrigerators or all drive a Benz model Velo....

Mikado's tail belt drive is pretty much copied straight from Hirobo right down to the number of teeth on the main and tail pulley btw. People will use a Logo 500 tail pulley to replace worn out ones on old Hirobo helicopters because it's a direct fit.

[KiloXray]

Originally Posted by Atomic Skull

Nothing wrong with their wire, shrink tubing, etc. I just found it surprising that it would be in a SAB manual given that they and a bunch of other companies pulled out of 3D masters to protest to HK's involvement.

Got any links to back that up? I hadnt heard that.

As for the clone, I do think it takes sales from SAB. It stands to see just how good the clone is to find out how many sales. Also, if it's actually good, the "but they will buy goblin parts" argue end goes out the window as well.

I think that this one is actually kind of dangerous. The design of the Goblin 380 is so good that even if ALZRC did a half ass job, the clone model will be pretty freakin good and meet a lot of people's needs. Then it just comes down to purchasing principles. Hopefully most people will make the right decision.

[dl5973]

Originally Posted by kavic5150

I have a fairly fine tuned Protos 500 thats all decked out for night flying. And it has a flybar. With its 12s custom motor I have no lack for power, but I can also cruise at low HS for 8:30 and land with 3.75v in each cell.

How would your packs be doing around the 8 minute mark?

I think he was referring to 2008 technology and not everyone is into long flight times and slow headspeed.

The motors today are way more powerful and flybarless unit has made the heli's allot better regarding stability and tracking in flight compared to the flybar days especially in the wind.

[Krea]

It looks like they cloned the carry bag as well. They are going all out on this one.

[ARM_Coder]

Originally Posted by Krea

It looks like they cloned the carry bag as well. They are going all out on this one.

ALZRC has been cloning Align carry bags for eons, they are virtually identical apart from the brand displayed and the somewhat lower durability of the materials.

[peteski]

Cloning doesn't really bother me (unlike faking, which does bother me), but the quality is very unlikely to be as good. If you want a Goblin, but you can't afford one, then this could be a viable alternative to get the "look" and "design" but without the "quality" and warranty support. Personally I'd prefer a used Goblin to a clone if cost was a concern.

[EC225LP]

For some reason I built a tarot 450l earlier this year .... what a POS waste of money.... nothing good about it.... This piece of junk will probably be similar. ... only original for me now on

[bgymr]

Tarot was one of my first birds. I thought it was ok.

They all copy from each other, how much, is only determined by how much they want to market that it's innovative.

Alzrc has made some parts for teh x5 that gaui refused to, and they are good quality. No different than Lynx.

And this is the free market working. If someone can make it cheaper, just like you, but different enough that the lawyers can't go after them, then they will.

Mikado and similar companies copied parts from others as well. Down to parts fitting onto the Logo from other helis.

Part of this I blame on global economic policies as well. 50 years ago, everything was made in the USA. Now companies use "made in USA" as an advertisement, but inhouse they try to minimize the amount they have to actually do here but still print the label. Why? Because the economics say that if you want to be competitive, make it in Asia.

When you do that initially you will make more money as a company because your margins are higher. Remember-you tried to maximize profit by making it overseas. This stuff is all made in what we like to refer to as sweat shops. While conditions are improving for their workforce, it's still nothing for someone there to work 12 hours a day for 50 years straight. So to maximize our profits, we take advantage of poor policies in Asia. What do they do in return? A few entrepreneurs figure out how to organize their own shops, they buy a set of calipers and a copy of CAD and start doing it.

We essentially do this to ourselves. If you want to get it to stop we should all fly Avants and Synergy.

[Yfbb]

Originally Posted by KiloXray

Got any links to back that up? I hadnt heard that.

As for the clone, I do think it takes sales from SAB. It stands to see just how good the clone is to find out how many sales. Also, if it's actually good, the "but they will buy goblin parts" argue end goes out the window as well.

I think that this one is actually kind of dangerous. The design of the Goblin 380 is so good that even if ALZRC did a half ass job, the clone model will be pretty freakin good and meet a lot of people's needs. Then it just comes down to purchasing principles. Hopefully most people will make the right decision.

What group of people are they going to lost sales to? The guys who are going "wow it looks like I may be able to afford a goblin design heli now" couldn't purchase a goblin in the first place. The guys who drop a grand on electronics aren't going to cheap on the kit.

If they lose sales, it is going to be the guys who do budget builds. But really, Who does budget builds with goblins?

[cycled]

Originally Posted by jmtyndall

Devil 380 Fast lmfao

This wouldn't happen if we quit buying clone crap. People keep buying it. People keep justifying it. Hard working people get screwed

Why do you care? SAB are doing okay for themselves and will keep doing so because they have loyal fans and they innovate. They might even benefit from clones when people buy one then realise they need better parts or don't want to wait for spares to come from China, or get into Goblins because they tried a clone then want to try the real thing.

I don't get this assumption that copying someone else's work is necessarily detrimental to them.

[jmtyndall]

Originally Posted by BeamHangar

...It's amusing to watch the "clone" debate in our hobby when i am CERTAIN that those whom cry loudest against it surely don't own "original" company versions of either TV's or Refrigerators or all drive a Benz model Velo....

Lots of high horses in a hobby....jmo....

If we were left to "only buy original" there'd be more unemployed than what we have...or we would ALL be living in the same shadow as our neighbor...thank goodness for diversity...

BH

You don't understand the difference between a competitor and a clone? Really? If you develop a heli and I develop a heli, and we never meet, but we each use features we like from helis we have flown in the past, then we have both designed and developed competing products.

If you design a heli, bring it to market, then I steal the design or go to your manufacturer. Your manufacturer is contracted to make 1000 parts a day plus setup tooling etc. You pay for those setup costs. Now I contract with your manufacturer to make an extra 500 parts, but you still pay the tooling and setup for the first 1000, so I get my parts for much less money.

It's all good and fair right??

[jmtyndall]

Originally Posted by cycled

Why do you care? SAB are doing okay for themselves and will keep doing so because they have loyal fans and they innovate. They might even benefit from clones when people buy one then realise they need better parts or don't want to wait for spares to come from China, or get into Goblins because they tried a clone then want to try the real thing.

I don't get this assumption that copying someone else's work is necessarily detrimental to them.

Copying someone's design efforts is wrong, whether there be economic impacts or not.

#1 your assumption that they will do more business because of it is exactly that, an assumption. Why don't you call up Align and ask them how they feel about the dozens of companies cloning them? Or Mikado? Or YGE? Those companies have all posted publicly about the affects of cloning on their business in the past. None of them said, "cloning rocks and is bringing us more money than we ever imagined." No hard-working, self-respecting company will ever endorse clone products, or worse, the dirty scumbag people who steal IP

[cycled]

Originally Posted by jmtyndall

Copying someone's design efforts is wrong, whether there be economic impacts or not.

Some would say that mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery.

No, I am not convinced either way how the existence of clones will affect SAB.

About your last sentence: go check out Red Hat, and specifically CentOS (the free version of Red Hat OS). They want people to use their product, paying or not.