No spotlight flying at IRCHA 2017

[IRCHA]

Rick,

We are engaged with AMA concerning all aspects of rotary wing activities. When the discussions were being held concerning the FAA regulations we met with AMA and submitted our recommendations for rules. Although not popular with some, we submitted rules that would have created distinctions between drones and helicopters as it was our goal to protect the core group. We were also involved early on with the discussions concerning the rule for night flying. The current rule in the Safety Code was actually put in place a couple of years after the early discussions. When rules are made, a lot of times concessions are made in order to ensure the overall activity. Many people enjoy flying at night and the majority of them do so with on-board lighting systems. While we realize that there is a smaller group that enjoys spot-lighting, in order to ensure the continued enjoyment of night flying for everyone, a rule was made which represents what is considered the safest form of night flying activities.

We know there are many pilots that will argue spot-lighting is safer, but when it comes down to the AMA, IRCHA, AMA insurance representatives, and legal representatives; external illumination of any sort does not provide the same level of safety that a model with an on-board lighting system can provide.

I always say, when you don't like the rules, then become part of the body that makes them. Become involved with the AMA or IRCHA. There are many opportunities to do so in either organization.

[Number]

Originally Posted by IRCHA

Rick,

We are engaged with AMA concerning all aspects of rotary wing activities. When the discussions were being held concerning the FAA regulations we met with AMA and submitted our recommendations for rules. Although not popular with some, we submitted rules that would have created distinctions between drones and helicopters as it was our goal to protect the core group. We were also involved early on with the discussions concerning the rule for night flying. The current rule in the Safety Code was actually put in place a couple of years after the early discussions. When rules are made, a lot of times concessions are made in order to ensure the overall activity. Many people enjoy flying at night and the majority of them do so with on-board lighting systems. While we realize that there is a smaller group that enjoys spot-lighting, in order to ensure the continued enjoyment of night flying for everyone, a rule was made which represents what is considered the safest form of night flying activities.

We know there are many pilots that will argue spot-lighting is safer, but when it comes down to the AMA, IRCHA, AMA insurance representatives, and legal representatives; external illumination of any sort does not provide the same level of safety that a model with an on-board lighting system can provide.

I always say, when you don't like the rules, then become part of the body that makes them. Become involved with the AMA or IRCHA. There are many opportunities to do so in either organization.

Looks like we're all gonna have to run night blades on our helicopters even during the day, because the sun, being an external light source, is insufficient

[gwright]

In the early days of night flying at the IRCHA Jamboree most all of us used lighted blades and glow sticks on boom and skids, which some of us still do. in the 90's, the ircha nightly was won many times with configurations like this. The helicopter is illuminated very well, and it does not rely on 'hand held illumination', thus it complys with the AMA rule. It's unfortunate that the wording of these new rules eliminates many us from night flying even though it's not spotlight flying.

[fastflyer20]

+1

I also don't get why home made blades are not allowed, most commercial night blades fly like crap. Isn't it better to be flying the same blades your heli is set up for and you are use to?

[KSHeli]

No more night flying of planks with add on lights at the AMA field anymore because almost are add on lights to their day rigs especially the large rigs.

[Baedarlboo]

http://www.horizonhobby.com/BLH1550?...FUUbaQodzpsLYg

[Number]

LOL

[LaDon]

Originally Posted by Number

Looks like we're all gonna have to run night blades on our helicopters even during the day, because the sun, being an external light source, is insufficient

That comment don't even make sense. It isn't even remotely constructive to any of this

[Number]

Well, it was mostly a joke so...

Sigh....

[LaDon]

I understand that but the guy was nice enough to come on here and spell it out for us. I will admit I don't think the DYI blade rule is necessary but he was good enough to explain. Let's give him credit for that.

Personally myself I think a spot could be made for spot light flying. There is plenty of room and it could be put in a place where if something went wrong it wouldn't hit anyone's vehicles or anything like that. Those that wanted to be there could go there and those that didn't or don't want it around then don't have to worry about it. Also no insurance but your own and no lawsuits. Which that right there throws it all out the window because that won't happen. Most ppl are sue happy.

When someone that comes on that is involved with organizing an event and you want something try discussing rule changes or possibilities with them instead of doing what you did. You will get a lot farther with achieving your end goal if you work with ppl instead of ticking them off

[KSHeli]

Originally Posted by LaDon

I understand that but the guy was nice enough to come on here and spell it out for us. I will admit I don't think the DYI blade rule is necessary but he was good enough to explain. Let's give him credit for that.

I guess I missed the explanation for why the DIY rule, I didn't see any explanation for that. WHY.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by KSHeli

I guess I missed the explanation for why the DIY rule, I didn't see any explanation for that. WHY.

Seems like the base concern ircha is voicing is reliability. If the craft is not "reliably" lit for nighttime flight it's deemed unsafe.


So while you and I can make completely reliable night blades with leds and a 1s pack, that's fundamentally reliable since we have 2 blades, the concern is that some will make them in-safely.

Seems the goal was to make night time flying as safe as possible. So the AMA concluded the best way for general consistency of safe nighttime operation was to limit it to manufactured night blades, and fully illuminated led canopy/boom. Where as other options like spotlight and diy blades are likely to lack the consistent safety margin they believe a standard night rig has.

[Baedarlboo]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

Seems like the base concern ircha is voicing is reliability. If the craft is not "reliably" lit for nighttime flight it's deemed unsafe.


So while you and I can make completely reliable night blades with leds and a 1s pack, that's fundamentally reliable since we have 2 blades, the concern is that some will make them in-safely.

Seems the goal was to make night time flying as safe as possible. So the AMA concluded the best way for general consistency of safe nighttime operation was to limit it to manufactured night blades, and fully illuminated led canopy/boom. Where as other options like spotlight and diy blades are likely to lack the consistent safety margin they believe a standard night rig has.

So that now brings up the question, if only manufactured products are being considered the "safer" and "allowable" solution, are they going to move to only allow pre-built heli and planes? At one point I remember we had to build our own blades. This includes epoxying weights in to the blades and sanding/finishing/balancing. Planes and helis that are scratch built have the same "risk". If we aren't trusted to that level, why trust us to fly a kit that we have to build in the first place? Where does the risk line get drawn?

As far as I know, there's no company manufacturing pre-made canopy and boom for night flying. So how is DIY boom/canopy allowed, yet DIY blades not?

[Hopester]

I understand the safety aspect of having the body of the helicopter lit for night flight. I'm not sure I like it, but It is what it is.

I don't understand the homemade night blade rule. If it wasn't for the pioneers that made the first homemade night blades we wouldn't have what we have now. This is a rule that can possibly stifle advancements in the night blade advancements.

I love flying at night, I've done both, spotlight, LED rig, and a combination of the two. I don't think a blade that is manufactured or homemade poses anymore or less risk than one another. I would guess the guy hand making his own blades has a little better control over quality than a factory made blade.

[nwmtech]

So does this mean that all the scale models are going to be required to run manufacture "tested" blades? What about wood blades? What about overspeed maneuvers? Are there going to be RPM limits at the speed cup?

[KSHeli]

Who would anyone risk night flying a rig that you don't trust. Most are rigs that people have already been flying safely, I didn't see LEDs to build a night rig at IRCHA this year. There are enough other risks flying a heli than just a DIY night rig, There is more danger in my thumbs.

[Guapo131]

I'm annoyed at the no DIY night blades rule. That is basically eliminating all 450size helicopters from night flying. No factory manufacturer makes night blades in that size. Maybe they used to, but certainly not now. I've looked! ... Extensively! I'd easily pay $60 for professional OEM night blades at 360mm size. If IRCHA can find new factory manufactured 360mm night blades, then fine! (I'd even accept 325mm blades for partial credit).
But to say "There are many manufactures of official night blades". That's BS. Maybe there are lots of options for people with bigger helicopters (600+ size blades). But that's not me. I can't afford that size yet.

And the new blade 230S night bird doesn't really count as a placeholder either. 115mm radius heli will not fly the same as 360mm radius heli. Also, that's $270 bucks! I'm trying to save up to get a 550+size heli. I don't want spend money on a SMALLER heli, that could instead go toward a 550.

[Hopester]

Good thing IRCHA isn't next week. Night blades are hard to find in stock anywhere.

[LaDon]

Originally Posted by Baedarlboo

As far as I know, there's no company manufacturing pre-made canopy and boom for night flying. So how is DIY boom/canopy allowed, yet DIY blades not?

I think the reasoning is they are spinning at a high rate of speed. Canopys and booms are not spinning at that rate along with moving across the sky. I still really don't agree with that rule. Not sure why they couldn't inspect them and ok them.

[LaDon]

Originally Posted by KSHeli

I guess I missed the explanation for why the DIY rule, I didn't see any explanation for that. WHY.

I imagine that his main answer was based on what was being said about spotlight. Ask him about the other. He may answer