Yet another noob and issues with circles.

[jtroutt19]

Hey guys, so I am having issues doing nice full circles. I can do half circles great! I can hover in all orientations. I can even hover tail in inverted. I am almost there with slow piro hovers as well. Occasionally I can do a circle but only one and then it seems that the heli looses it momentum and pulls itself out of the circle. I am trying to do slow circles and learning how to control the speed of the heli.

I have watch countless videos on circles. Just having a hard time getting them down. Anyone got any tips on what helped them get these down?

I am using realflight 7.5

[Wargamer]

It takes quite a lot of practice, and as soon as you celebrate getting it down pretty well, you realize that there is still tail first to learn, along with inverted both ways!

What worked best for me was:
1. Get some forward speed at a comfortable altitude;
2. Bank the heli at an appropriate angle for the size of the circle you want;
3. Apply the cyclic pitch needed to maintain altitude at the chosen bank angle - which is really what defines the radius of the circle;
4. Apply rudder to keep the heli's front-rear axis tangent to the circle radius you are flying. (Another way to say this is that you want the heli pointed in the direction of travel...not side-slipping.)
5. Manage the bank angle as necessary in conjunction with cyclic pitch.

This is all easier said than done, but once you understand it conceptually, it will be easier to do. A key piece is being conscious of what size circle you want to fly and what bank is roughly appropriate for that. Then you need to manage cyclic (both axes) so that you don't gain or lose altitude. When you get good enough at it, you're able to dial in the cyclic stick (and rudder) to a place where you don't actually have to do much (or anything) with it. I'm at a point where I can get in that zone fairly often, but I don't always get it. Patient practice...


EDIT: I realize I didn't mention collective. You can use that to help manage altitude, but I always feel that is a "bailout" resulting from my failure to manage cyclic, so I focus on maintaining consistent altitude with cyclic. When I'm really in the zone, I don't need to tweak collective much at all.

[jtroutt19]

Ok then maybe thats where I am having issues. I am either banking to much or not enough and not applying enough rudder or not enough. I might take a video of my flying to some critiquing Just dont be to harsh on my noob self....lol

[Steve Graham]

Yep, There are so many subtleties that it is difficult to evaluate your circuits without actually seeing them.

A couple things you said "I can do half circles" and "Occasionally I can do a circle but only one and then it seems that the heli loses its momentum and pulls itself out of the circle" lead me to suspect you're pulling too much back elevator. This is a very common problem with beginning circuit work. Back pressure generates the force necessary to accelerate the model through the curve of the circuit. Too much back pressure kills momentum by rotating the mainshaft behind a point perpendicular to the flight path. A heli can not maintain forward flight when this happens. It's common to see the heli slow down, stop and start to slide backwards towards the inside of the turn.

If you're seeing any of the above reduce the amount of back pressure you're holding. You need just enough to keep the heli from descending. If you're climbing at all you're pulling too hard. There will be a small requirement for increased collective in a turn to hold airspeed but it's much less than many realize.

You can also join me in my RF 7.5 room, steve's helis, and I can evaluate your flying. A cheap USB headset is invaluable when doing this.

[jtroutt19]

Hey steve thanks alot for that I didn't know you could do that. I will definitely take you up on that offer. I dont get home till after 8pm eastern time though. But what you are describing is exactly what happens to me. I will join your room tonight when I get on. And I have a headset

[ic-racer]

I think smooth banked turns are harder than a lot of other stuff with the usual 3D helis that one would buy these days. When it is windy I go back and forth and make sharp turns at each end. Smooth long baked turns are very hard with a small heli like 250.
It is easier for me to sit there and do front and back flips than big circuits.

It also seems as if some other orientations make smooth banked turns easier. As odd as it seems inverted backwards might easier to do banked turns/circles/hurricanes than right-side-up forward. Even "Freddy can Fly" instructional videos make reference to this.

[Kap'n Krunch]

hover it around in the shape of a circle kind of

match the rudder input to a slight forward momentum guiding the model around in the shape of the circle use very little aileron and very little elevator to start... technically it should remain in forward flight

keeping in mind if you bump forward elevator the model will hold that position and maintain forward flight while letting the gimbal return to neutral let the model fly it self trying not to over control it

[jtroutt19]

Well it wont let me join in multiplayer stuff. I do not have the latest version and for some reason it is not letting me update....... I will take a recording

[jtroutt19]

Well thanks for all the tips Steve I can no do really nice right hand circles. Still having issues with the left but rights are great. And I can do them consistently. I tried making a recording but my laptop didnt like that. It ended up being really choppy. I might try to find another screen recorder that doesnt use so much system resources as the xbox one. Anyway thanks alot! will keep informed!

[Wargamer]

Since you have it one way, all you need is more practice to nail it the other way. That's normal.

[Kap'n Krunch]

Hey try a quarter of the circle at a time stop hover at each point for 5 seconds then begin to the next quarter

[jtroutt19]

So the thing i was doing wrong was not enough rudder. I can pretty much dial it in with going right and dont have to do much adjustment. I am still trying to work on slower and smaller but at least I am progressing now. I was stuck there for about a week! I will try the quarter circle thing as well.

[bazsound]

Originally Posted by jtroutt19

So the thing i was doing wrong was not enough rudder. I can pretty much dial it in with going right and dont have to do much adjustment. I am still trying to work on slower and smaller but at least I am progressing now. I was stuck there for about a week! I will try the quarter circle thing as well.

yep i had the same issues, it took a while to find the balance point with how much rudder needed, it was really easy to other have not enough or too much

[jtroutt19]

Yeah and the tolerance is so small. Just a tiny bit to much or not enough and its all falling apart!...lol

[bredler]

Originally Posted by Steve Graham

You can also join me in my RF 7.5 room, steve's helis, and I can evaluate your flying. A cheap USB headset is invaluable when doing this.

I may finally get internet again at my place and do this...would be great to get some tips from good pilots!

I cancelled my internet, magazine subs, basically anything that was a recurring payment that wasn't a necessity. The internet alone saved me almost $1000 a year...after the promo period ends its pricey for a grad student to foot that bill living alone. Just got a new offer for $30/mo for 25Mbps broadband. Pretty sure I'm ready to have internet again after a year!

(Just use my phone at home for forum stuff now)

[Unihiron]

I've been flying for over a year now and I also have difficulty in mastering the circle. I really want to get upright circles locked in and hopefully I can transfer that to nose in funnels. Valuable stuff I have read so far.

[fluxcapacitor121]

One trick I used initially was to fly circles around myself in the sim. It really allows you to focus on the bank angle, elevator, and rudder.

Not sure I'd try it IRL. You'd get dizzy real fast

Also I find they're much easier in real life. Especially with bigger helis.