Will hobbywing ever fix hard start problem

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by UCPharmD

How does that motor do with longer blades? Cyclone 715, Switch 713, Vtx 717? I run all 160s because my collective management is not the greatest but lightening up my next 700 seems like a good move with how well yours seem to perform.

Prob fine. But I have a personal preference for the 695 length, so nothing first hand.

Even with bad collective mgmt like mine, the 130A is good to go. You don't need a 160 in a 700 class machine in light of how well the 130 is performing. I run a fan on it, and pipe all the ESC telemetry back to Jeti so see the FET temp real time. It's doing great.

[Hopester]

THANK YOU!

I'm thankful guys that tinker with settings, share your findings.

I'm not one to play with tuning much, but when I read this was a possible fix to the external gov issues, it forced me to change the settings in my two ESC's. Holly smokes what difference!

Thanks again!

Dave

[UCPharmD]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

Prob fine. But I have a personal preference for the 695 length, so nothing first hand.

Even with bad collective mgmt like mine, the 130A is good to go. You don't need a 160 in a 700 class machine in light of how well the 130 is performing. I run a fan on it, and pipe all the ESC telemetry back to Jeti so see the FET temp real time. It's doing great.

FET temp? We can do this with HW and Jeti?? Since when?

[mc20piece]

Originally Posted by shadco

Compared to?

.

Not disabling it. Its a rig. They need to fix the problem.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by UCPharmD

FET temp? We can do this with HW and Jeti?? Since when?

Yes. I use a method with no extra boxes. But today you need to buy a jlog to do it.

[2slow2g]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

Seems better, but you get a clean softstart also. If you try it please let us know your results.

Just switched to heli linear and disable AFW. Looking forward to testing it out tomorrow. After fiddling with endpoints and fbl deadzone I got it so my start up kick was minimal on grass, maybe 10 degrees. But hearing reports of increased power made me have to try it out.

Originally Posted by mc20piece

Not disabling it. Its a rig. They need to fix the problem.

I agree. I still think it's one of the best esc's on the market but part of the reason I bought it was for AFW. Hopefully running low headspeeds with it disabled isn't too terribly inefficient.

[UCPharmD]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

Yes. I use a method with no extra boxes. But today you need to buy a jlog to do it.

More Brain secret squirrel stuff. I'll wait.

[dgunawan]

Originally Posted by weracemo

Last: go online with the Brain and go back to the transmitter screen and calibrate your throttle stick end point so that it is -15 to 100% in the Brain software... this is the low signal you will actually be sending
to the hobbywing during spoolup...

I tried to get this, but in Brain, you cannot go below 0, even if in the Tx you try to get it to go below 0.

Anyway, I tried the following:

• Calibrated the throttle end points on both Brain and the HW 60A.
• Set the esc setting to have Heli Linear, AFW off, and Power at 1%
• In Brain, left the throttle out min as 1000 (during calibration it was 1070), set the Spoolup Ramp to 1, and maxed out the Ramp Up

When I spooled up, it goes from 0 RPM to full speed in matter of less than 5 seconds. To be fair, I have everything disassembled, there's absolutely no load on the motor. I have to assume that once everything is assembled including blades, I would see the proper result.

[weracemo]

Originally Posted by dgunawan

I tried to get this, but in Brain, you cannot go below 0, even if in the Tx you try to get it to go below 0.

Anyway, I tried the following:

• Calibrated the throttle end points on both Brain and the HW 60A.
• Set the esc setting to have Heli Linear, AFW off, and Power at 1%
• In Brain, left the throttle out min as 1000 (during calibration it was 1070), set the Spoolup Ramp to 1, and maxed out the Ramp Up

When I spooled up, it goes from 0 RPM to full speed in matter of less than 5 seconds. To be fair, I have everything disassembled, there's absolutely no load on the motor. I have to assume that once everything is assembled including blades, I would see the proper result.

No, do not expect a different result... It will spoolup fast assembled too....

Since it won't go below zero I dunno what the fix is for Brain.... I use VControl and posted my fix for that but was only guessing what would work for Brain. My fix has worked for a few others that have tried it but again that is for the VControl...

Perhaps there is a different fix for Brain but I don't have a flybarless to test.

[OnTheSnap]

I do not understand what's being addressed here. Spool up time is adjustable with the Brain governor. Use the spool up and ramp up sliders.

[joanpeca]

So, I wonder... doesn't the heli linear mode apply any attenuation to throttle response? I know that some ESCs, as old Align BLG ESCs soften fast throttle changes in order to avoid gears stripping if, for example, you switch from a 50% flat throttle curve to a 100% flat curve. This is something that can ruin governor performance.

Then I guess that in linear heli mode after spool up the motor output strictly follows the throttle input, doesn't it?

[weracemo]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

I do not understand what's being addressed here. Spool up time is adjustable with the Brain governor. Use the spool up and ramp up sliders.

Thanks OnTheSnap my fix aside from using or not using AFW has seemed to work fine. Please give us your feedback regarding performance with and without AFW...

I don't know the Brain and have said that from the start... hopefully dgunawan did not try to spool up his heli if it is too fast on the bench...

He should go back to a normal setup and use the Spool up time setting to get his Brain going..

[weracemo]

Originally Posted by joanpeca

So, I wonder... doesn't the heli linear mode apply any attenuation to throttle response? I know that some ESCs, as old Align BLG ESCs soften fast throttle changes in order to avoid gears stripping if, for example, you switch from a 50% flat throttle curve to a 100% flat curve. This is something that can ruin governor performance.

Then I guess that in linear heli mode after spool up the motor output strictly follows the throttle input, doesn't it?

There are really two problems Hobbywing should address...
1.) give us a smooth spool up like all other ESC's
2.) confirm without a doubt that Heli Linear is what we need to use for external governors and that it has no rate limiting or dampening that could interfere with an external flybarless governor.

I have heard some say that Kyle Stacy uses Heli Linear but have absolutely no way to confirm. I have heard others say that Heli Linear is the same as Fixed Wing except for the soft start.

I have also heard others say what you are explaining that the Heli Linear is in some way rate limited to keep the throttle transitions smooth for V curves and such.

Best I can say is OnTheSnap flys hard enough 3D for me and has been helping us so if he feels Heli Linear works with or without AFW, I will most likely go with his feedback.

[Puttputt maru]

I think they also need someone who speak English as a rep.

I do not think that DarkSky3D who has been very helpful here is a representative of HW but I could be wrong.

One thing for sure a more involved presence would be nice as with many other specific boards.

[OnTheSnap]

The factory has said the intent of heli linear is with no filters on throttle response. So same as fixed wing. But with soft start. This is why we haven't seen any change. I agree this hasn't been communicated at all online or in the documentation. Other escs have specific "external gov mode" to remove all confusion. Hobbywing does not, so we are left to experiment. And guess here.

I do think there are some potential timing issues with AFW impacting performance/power. I didn't spend much time testing AFW on with heli linear but my judgement was it made less power. But I want more unbiased feedback to see what the consensus is. Seemed obvious to me. But there is always placebo factors, and I'm a person of science not feel.

Brain has completely flexible esc end points. From the transmitter you always calibrate to zero in the wizard setup. But the throttle channel from the tx is directly passed through to the gov. Then the gov has its end points sent to the the esc. These are set in 1us steps and are completely flexible.

I still don't understand what your fix is fixing. The spool up in fixed wing can never be clean since soft start requires real time timing changes to the motor to make it completely smooth. This can't be done by an external governor.

Yes Kyle Stacy just runs heli linear period. With a 4525 scorpion. We had him change it to fixed wing at rchn4 and he refused to live with the kick for even one spoolup.

[gimbleguy]

if they could, they would. sometimes it takes time

[2slow2g]

Flew today with new settings. Spool up is as soft as can be and reached headspeed a lot sooner than before. I was letting it sit there thinking something was wrong before I remembered it's a protos and just quiet. Felt like it had a little more power but that might have just been a placebo effect. Aileron tic tocs were a lot easier to do fast without bogging though.

[dgunawan]

2 out of my 4 helis are on fixed wing, and they spool-up with little kick. I usually take off from dirt/grass. One heli has the ESC on heli gov, and that one has smooth spool-up. The last heli is where I want to experiment with the heli linear, since I'm building it.

[joanpeca]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

The factory has said the intent of heli linear is with no filters on throttle response. So same as fixed wing. But with soft start. ....

Thanks so much, Alex, this is exactly what I wanted to get confirmed. However, I think that the soft start issue when airplane mode is used in conjunction with an external gov could be easily addressed if the startup power parameter worked as it is supposed to do... but then using heli linear mode is a very feasible workaround to the issue.

[2slow2g]

Originally Posted by joanpeca

Thanks so much, Alex, this is exactly what I wanted to get confirmed. However, I think that the soft start issue when airplane mode is used in conjunction with an external gov could be easily addressed if the startup power parameter worked as it is supposed to do... but then using heli linear mode is a very feasible workaround to the issue.

Not when you have to disable AFW for heli linear to work. Hopefully they'll release firmware to fix these esc's soon...