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Old 08-24-2021, 05:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Throttle Hover question

I have a hard time understanding the "Throttle Hover" setting.

I do not control my hovering by the throttle but rather with collective pitch, with a constant straight throttle curve. A fixed pitch heli might use throttle for hovering, but not a CP heli. I did not think this FC was aimed for FP helis. What am I missing here?
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Old 08-24-2021, 08:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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OMG, did I ever foul this up. I didn't read the question fully. My complete post has nothing to do with the setting in the 6250, my bad.

Don

Last edited by Keyrigger; 08-24-2021 at 04:03 PM..
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Old 08-24-2021, 08:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Throttle hover as I recall was a nitro thing. Depending on the weather you might of needed a few more or less rpms.
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Old 08-24-2021, 12:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The fc uses this to figure out when you are in Normal mode, this is only used to make the model more stable during take off and landing.

If you are using flat line throttle i.e.;
Normal 65, 65, 65, 65, 65
Stunt 1 75, 75, 75, 75, 75

Then set the throttle hover to 65.

It would be much nicer for the tx to let the fc know what flight mode your in (without wasting a channel), welcome to 1990 technology
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Old 08-24-2021, 09:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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doesnt it already know what FM you are in, because you can set diff gains for each FM and set when SAFE is enabled in what FM
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Old 08-25-2021, 04:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I do have three FMs, "normal", "stunt 1" and "Stunt2", where normal is a ramp up throttle and SAFE (level, angle, stability etc etc) mode, Stunt1 is SAFE with 65% straight throttle curve and Stunt 2 is rate (3d, AS3X, acro etc etc) mode with basically the same throttle curve as stunt1. Same pitch curve on all three. And I did leave the 1990's some time ago...


I used to let the ESC spool up in stunt1 by just releasing throttle cut and take off from there, but that seems not to be the recommended procedure (not really described anywhere). But still, in "Normal" mode when I reach full head speed I have still not pitched up to hover so there is still no "Hover throttle" level, only "Pitch hover" level.



I need to change my take off and landing habits to use "Normal" for another reason too, the Avian Smart ESC can miss to do a super soft start up at times. Seems the Auto Rotation may kick and do a hard start up in even though I tried to disable it by setting the AR timeout to zero. So I need to do manual spool ups. I though we where in the 2020s now and we can automate things.......
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Old 08-25-2021, 05:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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With electric and the governor enabled in either internal to the ESC or external in the flight controller to me there is no concept of a normal mode only the head speed you want to select.

I will peruse the manual...

https://www.horizonhobby.com/on/dema...-Manual-EN.pdf

I am going to guess at steps 16 to 19 you have a linear throttle curve. Firstly to calibrate the throttle range to the ESC and then to complete the failsafe setting.

To accomplish step 19 you need to have approximately 5 degrees of pitch on the main blades.

If it displays the value for throttle percentage I then guess you set that as a flat line.

The manual then goes on to describe setting higher values for throttle in the other two flight modes so the flight controller disables the safe mode. These would be flat lines.

I didn't see anything about a governor so at this point you would enable it in the ESC.
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Last edited by Andy from Sandy; 08-25-2021 at 05:54 AM..
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Old 08-25-2021, 08:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok, now that I have cleaned up my glasses, I can help with what settings I have for a Castle ESC and the 6250 in my Diabolo 800+. Spool up is a small ramp up to a 30% flat line. That is my low curve setting. Since the throttle is set in the ESC to 30%, I have set my Throttle Hover to 35%. This allows any unwanted interactions of the gyro while on the ground to be turned off so as to not create an unstable takeoff. My next setting is 70% so is well above the Throttle Hover so now the gyro operates normally and the same for full speed 100%. The takeoff is very stable and never has it wanted to tip any direction while spooling up, being light on the skids, or just at the point that it rises off the ground. Hope this helps.

Don

PS: I am using Set RPM in the Castle but will be changing it to Gov Low at some time in the future.
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Old 08-25-2021, 08:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpguidry View Post
doesnt it already know what FM you are in, because you can set diff gains for each FM and set when SAFE is enabled in what FM

Only if you have a free channel available and setup FM Channel in the fc6250hx, keep in mind there are 6ch transmitters and the user may prefer to use the spare channel for tail gain.


This still works with thr curves / ramping flatline / etc.
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Old 08-25-2021, 08:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It's ironic that this is brought up as today, my 800 flipped itself on the ground, cleaning off the entire boom and destroying the blades. Why? Incorrectly set Hover Throttle. Let me run you through it. I had three head speeds on this helicopter and really needed a fourth so I went and changed the governor to Gov Low. I set the four lines with the first one at 1000rpm as the spoolup at 30% throttle. The second speed was at 1350 and a flat line of 52%. Third at a higher setting and finally one slightly lower but these two were above 60%. I had forgotten to change the Hover Throttle setting to above 52% as I don't fly or takeoff with the Spool Up setting.

I placed the helicopter on the ground but was not too careful how it was placed as the tail fin is only slightly off the ground at dead level. Essentially, the tips of the skids and the tail fin were the contact points and once I engaged the Hover curve, the wobbling that was just smoothing out, fooled the gyro to correct for movements that were caused by the shaking of the entire helicopter on the ground and not in the air. The result was that the helicopter turned on its side and beat the ground to death with its blades.

This was clearly my own doing but it shows a couple of things to be wary of. First, make sure that the tail can move when the skids are on the ground. Second, make sure that the Hover Throttle is set so that it is above the throttle percentage that you lift off the ground with. Expensive and painful as I had waited three weeks for a new belt and it was destroyed without even a flight on it, sigh. Take care.

Don
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Old 08-26-2021, 03:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
It's ironic that this is brought up as today, my 800 flipped itself on the ground, cleaning off the entire boom and destroying the blades. Why? Incorrectly set Hover Throttle. Let me run you through it. I had three head speeds on this helicopter and really needed a fourth so I went and changed the governor to Gov Low. I set the four lines with the first one at 1000rpm as the spoolup at 30% throttle. The second speed was at 1350 and a flat line of 52%. Third at a higher setting and finally one slightly lower but these two were above 60%. I had forgotten to change the Hover Throttle setting to above 52% as I don't fly or takeoff with the Spool Up setting.

I placed the helicopter on the ground but was not too careful how it was placed as the tail fin is only slightly off the ground at dead level. Essentially, the tips of the skids and the tail fin were the contact points and once I engaged the Hover curve, the wobbling that was just smoothing out, fooled the gyro to correct for movements that were caused by the shaking of the entire helicopter on the ground and not in the air. The result was that the helicopter turned on its side and beat the ground to death with its blades.

This was clearly my own doing but it shows a couple of things to be wary of. First, make sure that the tail can move when the skids are on the ground. Second, make sure that the Hover Throttle is set so that it is above the throttle percentage that you lift off the ground with. Expensive and painful as I had waited three weeks for a new belt and it was destroyed without even a flight on it, sigh. Take care.

Don
Ouch, feel your pain. BTDT too. I assume this was in rate (acro, 3d etc) mode, not in angle (level, stability, SAFE etc) mode? Or...?

/A
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Old 08-26-2021, 08:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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No SAFE mode on this machine but there is a rescue button only. I also only have used Rate mode a few times to setup a tail but found it a complete waste of time since I don't fly in Rate, ever. Oh well, parts will be ordered and the pain in the wallet will start up again.

Don
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Old 08-27-2021, 06:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
No SAFE mode on this machine but there is a rescue button only. I also only have used Rate mode a few times to setup a tail but found it a complete waste of time since I don't fly in Rate, ever. Oh well, parts will be ordered and the pain in the wallet will start up again.

Don
Now you lost me. No SAFE (angle, level) mode and no Rate (3D, acro) mode? Must be one or the other.

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Old 08-27-2021, 08:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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It's exactly what I said. No SAFE. The bail out is a separate function and the flying modes are all Heading Hold. Sorry, I can't make it more clear than that.

Don
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Old 08-28-2021, 06:01 AM   #15 (permalink)
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It's exactly what I said. No SAFE. The bail out is a separate function and the flying modes are all Heading Hold. Sorry, I can't make it more clear than that.

Don
Ah, now I see. You are talking about SAFE mode in the rotor head and Rate mode in the tail. I was only asking about the rotor head mode. I should have put the Q differently, sorry.

If you are not using SAFE, the rotor head is in rate mode. No way to disable that, unless you set PIDs to all zero. That would be a challenge...

/A
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I have a Castle 160HV as well and do the same thing you do, a small ramp up to a straight 30% across throttle curve in normal. In stunt 1 it’s 70% across and in stunt 2 it’s 100% across.

You said you set hover throttle as 35%. Shouldn’t you set it at maybe 28% since the heli has probably lifted off before the throttle got to 30%? And if you fly in normal mode at 30% and your hover throttle is 35% wouldn’t that mean that the anti-tip over algorithms are constantly on the entire time you are in normal mode?
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Old 09-18-2021, 11:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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For mine, the problem was one that I inadvertently created but failing to adjust to the new throttle settings that I have. When I first put it all together, I used Set RPM and had three speeds that worked just as it should have. I set my throttle line for Normal at a short ramp to 30%, set the Hover Throttle to 35% per recommendation from Brian, set a mid speed at 70% and a high speed at 100%. It worked perfectly for that setup.

However, demands changed and I needed four head speeds and changed to Low Gov and set my head speeds using the "Let's try this percentage first" and see where it got me. Well the line at 30% was now a very low rpm rate so that I would spool up the helicopter but not leave the ground as the actual rpm was around a thousand. It would be obviously slow so that I would be reminded that I need to change to the Idle 1 level to actually take off. That is where I failed to set the Hover Throttle higher than that actual takeoff point. That was 52%, which was much higher than the 35% setting, hence when I tried to takeoff at 52%, the gyro was getting unusual sensor data and having the tail in hard contact with the ground, the helicopter was not able to move freely about the main shaft. That further compounded the sensor information leading to the helicopter tipping to the right and the blades making contact with the geotech material, digging themselves in and flipping the helicopter hard over.

I still am waiting on parts (plant closedown for summer holiday) and if I am lucky, may get it back in the air by the end of the month. Changing the hover throttle setting, if it isn't done already, is the first thing that will be done as I power it back up. I have also changed the angle of the landing gear so that the tail is now lifted off the ground when set on the grass runway. I just put it in the wrong place with the incorrect setting to create the perfect takeoff tip-over. My other two helicopters that have 6250s in them are set per the correct numbers. Man, this has been one expensive year and I have not even bought a new helicopter, sigh.

Don
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Old 09-21-2021, 07:34 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks. I maidened mine yesterday with the Castle 160HV, with the 30 - 70 - 100 throttle curves and it took off and landed no problem. I'll make sure my tail is never stuck in grass during takeoff.
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