Build check - Logo 700

[teshreve]

Looking to get my first Mikado heli. Hoping some can sanity check my build list for me. Have not been following helis for a while. My last heli was the Align 600E, upgraded piecemeal to the DFC iteration. Still fly, but it's far too rarely. Hoping to fix that.

This is what I am considering

From Mikado USA
Logo 700 w/ 717s
- VBar NEO 6.1 Express w/ PRO
- Xnova motor
- 13t pinion
- Servo Horn: 04021 Carbon Servoarm, 20 mm, Futaba

From amain.com
- MKS HBL575
- MKS HBL880
- Hobbywing Platinum Pro 130A HV V4

From Revolectrix
- 4x 5000mAh 6S LiPO - 70C Silver Label GOPACKS

$3,200'ish

Will be using a DX9
Already have iCharger 406DUO + Chargery S1500 Power Supply
Have been using vbar for what seems like a decade now
I can 3D, but it aint very pretty.

Concerns
BEC? Use the one in the ESC?
No external gyro on vbar?
No experience with Hobbywing, but I inexplicably have the black plastic programmer gizmo. Been using CC since dirt was invented.

Thoughts? Any bad combinations here?

Thanks in advance!

[rcmarty]

Looks good.

Motor - make sure motor has a 6mm x 55mm shaft (55 being the Mikado proprietary flavour )

I've heard great things about the hobbywing esc's . I did a basic setup on one to work with vbar gov , worked well. At the last heli meet had the hobbywing rep do a full setup on it.

Double check on the 130a rating. I'm a 3d master wanabee and my 3d can look a little rough at times. Worth noting that that's usually followed with a heavy handed collective / cyclic move drawing some higher amps. If this happens with you also , you might want a little extra capacity for those moment.

On 600 and more I like to go with separate rx pack. Preference for me because these things cost a bit to crash. Been considering a BEC lately though , but only with a backup guard like product for emergence power.
On the fence still , add more potential electrical failure points (bec/backup) to save a few grams or just run a rx pack.

Neo on electric doesn't need extra sensor. It can be added if you like as a preference.
External sensor intended for high vib (turbine / nitro )

Can't comment on servo's , I'm a jr 8917hv guy .
Safe to assume most modern brand named servo's are going to be more than up to task.

Hope this helps .

Martin

[taoY]

The kit comes with servo horns so you don't have to buy it. FYI, lowerheli carries Mikado helis now.

[jhamel]

The new Logo 700 is a very pretty helicopter. Its big claim to fame is that it is among the lightest in the 700 class and comes with the new VTX blades. These are some of my recommendations:

1) Battery size. I recommend going with smaller and lighter 4400-4500mah size packs. The 6S 5000mah packs will work, and they will give you about 30 to 45 seconds of additional flight time over the 4400-4500mah packs, but the 4400-4500mah packs will make the helicopter about 1/4 pound lighter which is significant for both agility and peak current and power draw.

2) The HW Platinum Pro 130A V4 ESC with internal BEC is a solid ESC with a robust internal BEC. No need for the 160A version. Based on your "I can 3D, but it aint very pretty" flight style, I anticipate your peak current draw will be only about 120A. The ESC is designed for sustained 130A, so it should work perfectly for you. The internal BEC is very robust. No need for an external BEC or 2S LiPo, but I would still recommend an external backup system i.e. Optipower Ultra Guard, R2 Prototyping Super Capacitor, etc.

3) FBL unit. The VBar Neo is awesome. It will work really well on this helicopter. However, unless you commit to also purchasing a VControl, you will not be getting the full functionality of the Neo. Since you are still in the research phase, consider learning a bit more about the Spirit Pro and/or Brain2/iKon2 (especially the model with integrated BT).

4) Tail Servo. The MKS HBL880 is a great tail servo. I own two of them. Bear in mind the output spline is 8mm (standard 6mm), so servo arm options are limited. Second, the four mounting holes are slightly smaller than other servos (Futaba, XPert, Savox, etc.). What that means is that you cannot use the new ProTek servo grommets or MSH servo adapters that prevent servos from rotating around the frame mount. Why do I make a big deal about this? The Logo 700 frame is plastic. The servo mounting screws should not be gorilla torqued or you risk stripping the frame mounting holes. The MKS servos require tightening the servos pretty snug to prevent the servos from rotating around the frame mount. Using one of the other servo brands with standard mounting holes will allow you to use the mounting grommets mentioned above which do not require the servos to be mounted with gorilla torque to prevent them from rotating around the mount. (I needed to redact this portion because it is not applicable)

5) Cyclic servos. The MKS HBL575 are awesome servos. I have two sets of the MKS HBL599, and they have served me very well. However, I decided not to use these MKS X6 servos on the Logo 700 because of how they mount to this helicopter with plastic frame. The MKS servo four mounting holes are slightly smaller than other servos (Futaba, XPert, Savox, etc.). What that means is that you cannot use the new ProTek servo grommets or MSH servo adapters that prevent servos from rotating around the frame mount. Why do I make a big deal about this? The Logo 700 frame is plastic. The servo mounting screws should not be gorilla torqued or you risk stripping the frame mounting holes. The MKS servos require tightening the servos pretty snug to prevent the servos from rotating around the frame mount. Using one of the other servo brands with standard mounting holes will allow you to use the mounting grommets mentioned above which do not necessitate the servos to be mounted too tightly to prevent them from rotating around the mount.

6) Motor. As mentioned earlier, make sure the motor comes with a 6mm diameter shaft of at least 55mm length. This rules out a bunch of motors.

Enjoy the new build!

[Johnny31297]

As you're facepalming about the price, here's some points where you can save without sacrificing performance:

Those servos are ridiculously overpriced, I'd suggest going with something else there. I personally use BK DS-7002, but I've heard great things about KST servos lately and those are even cheaper.

Revolectrix packs seem like a waste of money as well. Many other good batteries for a better price out there.

XNova again is something that seems like bling, Scorpion is way cheaper as well and certainly won't perform any worse.

Otherwise:

NEO is a good choice for that helicopter. The rotor geometry basically was made for that, so even though it's not the cheapest FBL, it certainly is the best for the application.

Good luck with the HW ESC, I definitely wouldn't buy that one ever again. Not that it's expensive or anything, I just had horrible luck with it and certainly wouldn't trust it with my 700.

[KevinB]

To clarify a couple points from above.....

The tail servo is not screwed into plastic. It attaches to an aluminum mount. The MKS880 fits fine and if you use Align carbon servo mounting plates under the screws, there is no servo movement with minimal torque.

Xnova bling? Please check your prices Johnny. On MikadoUSA, the XNova is $340. The Scorpion is $415.

For your ESC, I just put the Scorpion Tribunus200 on mine and it works awesome. I had a YGE200 on it but couldn't get a smooth startup. I've heard a lot of people having the same issue with the HW200...not sure if the 130 has the issue as well.

KevinB

[jhamel]

Originally Posted by KevinB

The tail servo is not screwed into plastic.

You are totally correct. I got home and looked at the setup again to confirm. I edited the original post and redacted the incorrect portion. My bad.

[KevinB]

No worries. After you posted that, I had to go double-check myself!
I wish they did that on the left/right cyclic servo mounts as well.

KevinB

[jhamel]

Originally Posted by KevinB

I had a YGE200 on it but couldn't get a smooth startup. I've heard a lot of people having the same issue with the HW200...not sure if the 130 has the issue as well.

It is my understanding that this is (possibly was) an issue when using the FBL unit governor with the HW ESC RPM-out wire. I believe this is resolved by disabling Freewheeling. Maybe HW has resolved this with the latest firmware update? There are apparently no startup issues when using the HW ESC internal governor.

[teshreve]

Appreciate all the insight and opinion Thank you.

I have some bias towards the Revolectrix packs. My very first pack was a $325 6s 5000 pack from TP for the original Trex 600. Killed that in seconds. Although we should blame that on my newness to lipoville. Next came Outrage XP packs. The orange ones. Holy moses those sucked. Then random this and that, with a Flightpower in there at some point. Then the Hobbyking era, then GensAce. Now these were solid. Then one day you couldn't buy them any more. All the sizes I wanted for like a year were simply not purchasable. Permanently out of stock.Then I found Revolectrix. Bought 4 packs. This was like 2013? The packs showed up with my name on them
These packs are still kickin it. Hundreds of flights later. Dead even balance. IR is up a bit, but they are solid. Anyways, TMI. Probably going to stick with Revolectrix this round. Although I have the 4400's in my basket now.

I am super comfy with vbar and also have a lot of bias here. Understand the wizardry I'll be missing out on with vcontrol. Would love to give that tech a spin, but that is quite an investment. I am good with USB'ing it up. My DX9 has 16 models in use. Buying a radio for one heli would be nuts. Wait, this is nuts anyways. What am I saying? lol

Anyone use Castle Creations any more? So easy to setup. Logging. Anyways... as stupid as it seems I like the aesthetics of the HW and it's probably just as much risk as any selection. I had 3 CC ESCs flame in spectacular fashion, one after the other in the same heli. Then they finally figured out what the problem was. That cost me thousands. Still have their replacements in the bags. Not sure why I would ever consider them again. But such a nice provisioning interface!

I can't seem to find anyone that has either the Optipower Ultra Guard or the R2 Prototyping Super Capacitor. WTF?

I figured I'd go with the seemingly default Scorpion motor, but it is out of stock at Mikado USA so I went looking. Then I found they were selling it for way more than amain and began looking at opinions of their other bundle option, the Xnova. Cheaper and plenty of great feedback. Plus it's not gold. Ughh that ridiculously ugly gold.

I'll re-look at the BK servos. @ almost $200 x 4, it does seem a bit over the top price wise. I was buying Align 610 servos @ $25 from people parting out their combos and they were crazy solid. Never had one fail after I can't even count how many crashes. So ya, $190 vs. $25 is a tough call.

The Logo 700 ordering page has a drop-down for servo arms, so I assumed they were not included. Are the "carbon servoarm" a hop-up item?

[jhamel]

Originally Posted by teshreve

I can't seem to find anyone that has...the R2 Prototyping Super Capacitor. WTF?

World of Heli is the only place in the world that seems to have them in stock. $35 to ship to the US. I recently purchase 4 units from them, and my local buddy purchased 3 units. Took about 3 weeks to receive them.

[teshreve]

Originally Posted by curmudgeon

World of Heli is the only place in the world that seems to have them in stock. $35 to ship to the US. I recently purchase 4 units from them, and my local buddy purchased 3 units. Took about 3 weeks to receive them.

Good gravy!
OK, got 2 of them ordered. I guess that means I need to buy the rest of the heli now
How long have these been on intergalactic backorder?

[jhamel]

Originally Posted by teshreve

How long have these been on intergalactic backorder?

Good deal! They have been on back order since at least Nov 2016. I do not know if they have been discontinued.

[Johnny31297]

Originally Posted by curmudgeon

World of Heli is the only place in the world that seems to have them in stock. $35 to ship to the US. I recently purchase 4 units from them, and my local buddy purchased 3 units. Took about 3 weeks to receive them.

Yeah, "seems". From my experience they don't actually have them and will try to rip you off, especially when it says "low quantity". I stopped ordering from them long ago and still hear new horror stories every now and then.

Originally Posted by KevinB

Xnova bling? Please check your prices Johnny. On MikadoUSA, the XNova is $340. The Scorpion is $415.

Kevin, this is what I was looking at.

Originally Posted by teshreve

I'll re-look at the BK servos. @ almost $200 x 4, it does seem a bit over the top price wise. I was buying Align 610 servos @ $25 from people parting out their combos and they were crazy solid. Never had one fail after I can't even count how many crashes. So ya, $190 vs. $25 is a tough call.

Yeah, BK 7002 are $99 per piece

[KevinB]

Sorry Jonas. Apparently I should be looking at Amain more often.

KevinB

[teshreve]

Well, I got a tracking number from world-of-heli.de today and a separate email saying they would ship today. Wish me luck

[Rosquillos]

Logo 700 VTX717 kit $1000
Xnova 4525-530kv shaft f $340
Xpert R2 Servos $580
Scorpion Tribunus 200A ESC $450
Neo or Brain 2 $165 - $230
Gens Ace 5000mah 45C X4 $416

For lipo's Genstattu.com 10% off if you sign up in the newsletter. Also 30 grams lighter each pack compare to my pulse 4500mah 45C. You can save more buying it when they have a sale. Also try calling sellers they can give you 10% all day long from ordering on the phone. Amain, Mikadousa and most sellers rather give 10% now to sell than waiting a month for the next sale. Just get the Scorpion Tribunus 200A. I know its not necessary, but great to have just in case you need it later on. Also if you get a vcontrol you will have intergration with built in current sensor.

[teshreve]

What are the selling points on the Scorpion Tribunus?

[jsbach#1]

Coming from an Align 600 dfc head you're in for a massive shock the first time you come off the ground. Logo 700 on vtx717 blades is a polar opposite machine from what you have.

Don't sweat weight too much because nothing can prepare you for how light this machine feels compared to what you have ! I just put my 160 HW in exchange for the 130 HW I had in there. I'm using the gens ace 5000 which are very light at about 725 grams each. Both the 130 and 160 HW work fine with vbar gov for me but you have to select heli linear and active free wheel to off.

I just weighed with a scale that is within 0.1 lb of a known bang on scale at 20 lbs reading. My logo as you see is 11.8 lbs. So it used to be 11.5 with HW 130 and at 11.5 lbs with vtx 717 blades it's pure magical light feel. In fact at 11.5 it felt lighter than my goblin black thunder 700 which weighs less.

the only thing that's important IMO is stick with 4525 class motor. To me this is important and anything larger is unnecessary.

[mc20piece]

Originally Posted by KevinB

Sorry Jonas. Apparently I should be looking at Amain more often.



KevinB

Yeah, it seems Mikado/MikadoUSA think the "Mikado" printed on the top of the motor can is worth an additional $115.00. IMO it's blatant and ridiculous price gouging. Dumb.

I opted to spend the 5 minutes per motor and change the shaft.