Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Compass Helicopters > Compass 7HV, 7HVU and Chronos


Compass 7HV, 7HVU and Chronos Compass Compass 7HV, 7HVU and Chronos Model Helicopter Discussion


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-20-2012, 02:01 PM   #61 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,502
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyRaptor View Post
Hi Aram, thanks for this amazing post!! It is a good method how to find a better place to the sensor!

But... I'm really disappointed with VBar.. Let's suppose my problem is not a defective unit, but something like yours... bad low vibrations.

First of all, one of the best features (at least to me) of VBar is the Vibration Analyzer. It's suppose to help you find such issues.. If you have a vibration messing with the sensor and the same sensor cannot identify it, so this feature is useless.

Sorry but I have no time and patience as Aram, to spend weeks trying to find the best square-inch to place the sensor

It is at least a shame that you pay $400 for a FBL unit with the Best-Ultra-Super-Ultimate-Silver-Separate-Gyro-Sensor and it is vulnerable to a vibration that a $200 compact unit is not.

I cannot even imagine how this sensor performs in a nitro bird as they usually shakes like a hell.

Ok, but maybe I have a defective sensor (we know there are no fault prof production line) . Unfortunately I have no other sensor to run a test. I will contact ReadyHeli and ask for a replacement sensor. If the second sensor shows the same issue, I will return the VBar and hope for a full refund.

I should rename this thread to "My first (and last) experience with Vbar"

Alex.
In all fairness, Alex, I have the vbar on three of my helicopters and only on one of them have I had any kind of issue. The other two helicopters were "plug and play." At one point, I was about ready to throw up my hands and replace it with some other brand of FBL controller, however, after trying the Beastx on two other helis, I wasn't happy either. I thought about trying the Brain, Skookum and HeliCommand, but ultimately just wanted to get the vbar working right because it is that good! IMHO. I am glad I took the time to get it worked out. A friend of mine (who is a very good 3D pilot), flew my 800 after I got it all worked out and thought it was fantastic.
__________________
Trex 800e, Trex 600n
Futaba 14SG / AMA# 959345 / IRCHA #3954
aramb is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-20-2012, 02:43 PM   #62 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMel View Post
Ok,

Since you have put down enough time, we'll swap the sensor at ReadyHeli, but I doubt it will help to be honest, often in these cases it's some low frequency vibe.

The MB in this case has same sensor as Blueline, they are "more blind" for such things.

Anyway, I will contact you via RH ticket again.

/Fredrik
Hi Fredrik, interesting they went from hi res black to low res blue now hi res again, whats the deal, im perfectly happy with the low res blue so getting confused with, blue better than black cause black had too hi res so pick up more vibes now silver better than blue, you get what im saying?
__________________
Tdr quantum 4530 1.4 yy h/ jive120 beastx, Vibe e 8 12s mx 700 1.32yy vbargov fusionhawk, Banshee nr 36 kosmik 200 pyro 800 1.4yy 455kv 14s beastx, xtreme 700 pyro 850 1.5yy 14s kosmik 200
Stolla is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 02:48 PM   #63 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

Stolla;

Short version:
Black = Higher res but could not tell the difference between vibes and real movement.
Blue = lower res but good vibration filter, so when you had movement it saw movement.
Silver = Higher res, and good vibration filter/properties, meaning even in high vibes it see the smallest movement.

Inherited with silver a small low hz kick will then be seen as movement and tailservo will counteract where as the blue might say "what?" and miss the movement all together.

You can go higher gain on silver because of this, it feels more exact as a result.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 02:52 PM   #64 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramb View Post
In all fairness, Alex, I have the vbar on three of my helicopters and only on one of them have I had any kind of issue. The other two helicopters were "plug and play." At one point, I was about ready to throw up my hands and replace it with some other brand of FBL controller, however, after trying the Beastx on two other helis, I wasn't happy either. I thought about trying the Brain, Skookum and HeliCommand, but ultimately just wanted to get the vbar working right because it is that good! IMHO. I am glad I took the time to get it worked out. A friend of mine (who is a very good 3D pilot), flew my 800 after I got it all worked out and thought it was fantastic.
Look vbar is good i fly them on all except the speed machines but i can honestly say except for banks which i can simulate to a large extend with flightmodes and off course the gov and log what the one can do the other does as well. Problem with beast is few know how to set up correctly and many know it alls also handling out wrong information, whereas vbars setup regimen is foolproof, off course comes at a price! ! dont give up on the beast though.
__________________
Tdr quantum 4530 1.4 yy h/ jive120 beastx, Vibe e 8 12s mx 700 1.32yy vbargov fusionhawk, Banshee nr 36 kosmik 200 pyro 800 1.4yy 455kv 14s beastx, xtreme 700 pyro 850 1.5yy 14s kosmik 200
Stolla is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 02:57 PM   #65 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMel View Post
Stolla;

Short version:
Black = Higher res but could not tell the difference between vibes and real movement.
Blue = lower res but good vibration filter, so when you had movement it saw movement.
Silver = Higher res, and good vibration filter/properties, meaning even in high vibes it see the smallest movement.

Inherited with silver a small low hz kick will then be seen as movement and tailservo will counteract where as the blue might say "what?" and miss the movement all together.

You can go higher gain on silver because of this, it feels more exact as a result.
Thanks for explanation, still wondering why tamper with a winning combo,blueline, is it supplier issue or marketing strategy. My l700 is still boxed ( i need something under the tree) but i really hope the silver doesnt dissapoint
__________________
Tdr quantum 4530 1.4 yy h/ jive120 beastx, Vibe e 8 12s mx 700 1.32yy vbargov fusionhawk, Banshee nr 36 kosmik 200 pyro 800 1.4yy 455kv 14s beastx, xtreme 700 pyro 850 1.5yy 14s kosmik 200
Stolla is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 03:11 PM   #66 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 372
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMel View Post
Inherited with silver a small low hz kick will then be seen as movement and tailservo will counteract where as the blue might say "what?" and miss the movement all together.
MrMel, could you please explain/discuss about this a little more?? Maybe I can try to find what in my heli is messing with the sensor.

I'm using a Pyro 700 + HeliJive in mode 5... but with a little large pinion (15T instead of usual 13T or 14T)... maybe this is the source of low vibes ??

I have a JLog2 and it shows the motor running at 18.000 RPM (2000 RPM of headspeed), and the PWM around 75% - depending on the load, of course. I can post here a log, if you think useful.

Alex.
SkyRaptor is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 03:15 PM   #67 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

I know question not directed to me but no, larger pinion wont do it.
__________________
Tdr quantum 4530 1.4 yy h/ jive120 beastx, Vibe e 8 12s mx 700 1.32yy vbargov fusionhawk, Banshee nr 36 kosmik 200 pyro 800 1.4yy 455kv 14s beastx, xtreme 700 pyro 850 1.5yy 14s kosmik 200
Stolla is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 03:40 PM   #68 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

Quote:
MrMel, could you please explain/discuss about this a little more?? Maybe I can try to find what in my heli is messing with the sensor
For sample, bad tracking gives a low freq vibe that can cause tailwag, i tested this on purpose this summer.
In other words, bad blades or bad tracking is enough.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2012, 01:28 AM   #69 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 967
 

Join Date: May 2009
Default

Helpful thread. I've had a wag that I can't get rid of.
I know the carbon outer on the tail pushrods was free to rattle forward/back on the metal inner so I've siliconed it to keep it still. See if it helps!
rebeltrousers is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2012, 03:43 PM   #70 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 372
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Default

I've just tried my VBar in other brand new 7HV from a friend of mine.. One layer of 3M grey tape: same issue (wag and drift).. For a second try, I placed the sensor on 2 layers of 3M grey tape.. the reduction of drift and wag was noticeable, but still there. So I don't know..

This 7HV was flying fine with Blue Vbar.

Maybe MrMel is correct, the sensor is fine but sensible to low vibes.. and both 7HVs have the same issue. Next step is to try it in my 6HV..

But I think this Silverline sensor is way "sensitive".. I cannot imagine its performance in a Nitro heli..

I will let you guys know the results...

Alex.
SkyRaptor is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2012, 04:17 PM   #71 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 19,684
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Default

Alex,

Can you try a thin metal plate sandwiched between two layers of foam tape?

That might kill the vibration. Futaba and Spartan included this, at least for a while.

Just a thought.
__________________
KBDD-Team Captain, Team JR DFA, Western Robotics Field Representative
6HV-U, Warp, 7HV,Knight Pro,Knight 3D, Atom, Atom Stretch, Odin II, 6HV, 3D Plus, Knight 50, Chronos, Velos, Tarot, OMP M2 (and anything else I can get my hands on...).
Ah Clem is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #72 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

No issue on nitro.. Its actually easy to filter nitro vibes, its not the vibes per see that is the problem but irregular vibes that is an issue
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2012, 05:50 PM   #73 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 372
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Clem View Post
Can you try a thin metal plate sandwiched between two layers of foam tape? That might kill the vibration. Futaba and Spartan included this, at least for a while. Just a thought.
Maybe it kill the vibration, but I think it is not the right way... If the sensor is fine, I should be able to find the vibration root cause and solve it. Or Mikado should be aware of this sensor's "weakness" and filter it in some way. I really don't like to keep stacking metal plates and tapes like a "triple super burger"

But I thank you so much for the effort helping me.. I hope all this knowledge we all built up help many people

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMel View Post
No issue on nitro.. Its actually easy to filter nitro vibes, its not the vibes per see that is the problem but irregular vibes that is an issue
Interesting.. like you said, the issue is only with low vibrations as the sensor confuses it with low movements like wind gusts.

I have just asked a friend to send me his Blue sensor.. let's try it..

On early December I'm gonna meet a friend that owns a Silverline as well. We will try it on my heli, just to compare both Silverline sensors.

BTW, what's the main difference of Blue and Silver sensors on flight?? You told Silver is hi res, but (sorry my lack of knowledge), what can it improve the flight??

Thanks again.

Alex.
SkyRaptor is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-23-2012, 05:00 PM   #74 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,963
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Default

I got rid of my kit's tail wag with the v2 tail today, even in very strong gusting wind.

Tightened up the tail servo. It could move forward and back in the frame slightly with a little force on it. Tightening it up so it can't move completely eliminated the wag. With the stand off under the servo tabs and the long screws, it's easy for things to move around.

Check yours!!!

Tail is very linear... Great piro consistency in fall knife edge piros.
__________________
1 - Diabolo 1 stuffed with, well, see below
2 - Diabolo 2 stuffed with testosterone, jittery sweat, and rippling flanks
OverTemp is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2012, 12:20 PM   #75 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 967
 

Join Date: May 2009
Default

Fixed for me too.
Secured tail pushrod carbon to the inner to stop rattles
Did V2 tail upgrade
Replaced BLS251 with Torq 9188
No drift, no wagging.....especially in hover.
Now I just have to set the gov up properly so it doesn't overspeed.......then it wags like crazy!!

rebeltrousers is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-02-2012, 06:52 AM   #76 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 372
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Default

Yesterday I tested the Silverline in my just rebuilt 6HV... same issue, tail drift and small wag, even with a tail gain of 115...

Next steps, I'm gonna test my Vbar unit in 6HV with a Blue sensor, and then test my sensor in other heli already running fine a Silverline..

Or my sensor is faulty or my build skills have got really bad from night to day...

Alex.
SkyRaptor is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1