Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 250 Class Electric Helicopters


250 Class Electric Helicopters 250 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2010, 05:06 PM   #101 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Default

Yes, high/low values are endpoint settings.

Going over 100% will let you level the swash using only one endpoint adjustment instead of two.

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papabearob View Post
Howdy gang, had some trouble with Hovering with the Align Manual settings, so going to try Jasmine's set-up.

In her video set-up of the DX-7, she mentions leaving the Travel Adjustmentments at 100% with a mention of CCPM Interactions (around 12:43) in the video... I did not see a follow-up for the CCPM... I know Bob did one in his Techroom (CCPM Part 2)... would the "endpoints" be the high/low values on Travel Adjustment?

Second Question- apart from the CCPM interactions above, what would you gain from having Travel Adjustments over 100%?

Thanks in Advance!
dbennettya is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-23-2010, 07:21 PM   #102 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,605
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papabearob View Post
Howdy gang, had some trouble with Hovering with the Align Manual settings, so going to try Jasmine's set-up.

In her video set-up of the DX-7, she mentions leaving the Travel Adjustmentments at 100% with a mention of CCPM Interactions (around 12:43) in the video... I did not see a follow-up for the CCPM... I know Bob did one in his Techroom (CCPM Part 2)... would the "endpoints" be the high/low values on Travel Adjustment?
You don't need to adjust these unless you determine that you have an unwanted CCPM interaction. Just leave them at 100%. And yes, end points, travel adjust, and travel volume are all the same thing. Different manufacturers and people use different terms.

I did not cover the entirety of helicopter setup in that video, and this winter I plan to make a set of three videos showing mechanical, radio, and "issues" such as CCPM interaction and phasing problems and how to fix them. However, I have a lot of other crap to get done first - I have two helis to build, one OS 61 overhaul which I've never done before, one plane to build, and I will be re-plumbing my bathroom, hehe...

Quote:
Second Question- apart from the CCPM interactions above, what would you gain from having Travel Adjustments over 100%?

Thanks in Advance!
I NEVER put them over 100% on a helicopter. Always reduce the travel of servos which move too far, rather than increasing the travel of servos which don't move far enough. The reason is because, anything over 100% is essentially "undocumented territory" and the standard by which servos are made guarantees that 100% will be available, but does not address what to do with numbers out of the +-100% range. Some servos will support values over 100%, but with helis, it's sometimes difficult to push a servo reliably into that range so that you can test how it reacts. With virtual cyclic rings and the standard style of flying, it's rare to push a cyclic servo to the max anyway - but it's possible and so I try to avoid it.

Remember I said I use bigger numbers sometimes on planes? That's because, on a plane, I can reliably max out the servos with control inputs and I can test what happens when the servo is pushed over 100% - if it stops early, I know that servo won't work and I'll have to make other adjustments. However, I try not to go too far over - if it's more than a few points over 100%, I think about other ways to do what I need.
Jasmine2501 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-26-2010, 11:06 PM   #103 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2009
Default Thanks!

Thank you both for the advice... and the set-up movies!
Papabearob is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2010, 10:09 AM   #104 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 80
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Default

This is what you guys helped me build. She flies perfect now!





Thanks!!!


__________________
T-Rex 450 Sport
T-Rex 250 SE
Gaui 255
Walkera 4G6S
Heli-dood is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2010, 11:05 AM   #105 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,605
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Yeah I like the colors on that one. Probably makes a nice circle when it's running - stripes are always good on blades for visibility.
Jasmine2501 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2010, 07:34 PM   #106 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,458
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine2501 View Post
Yeah just get all the upgrades right away... metal bearing blocks, metal tail drive, metal tail shaft, metal rudder servo mounts, and change the ESC to something better.
How critical it is upgrading the metal bearing blocks and metal tail drive?
pinguin is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2010, 10:42 PM   #107 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,605
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguin View Post
How critical it is upgrading the metal bearing blocks and metal tail drive?
While I thought the 250 was pretty smooth to begin with, the metal bearing blocks really made it nice. It's not a required upgrade, but if your 250 is not running smoothly, you can try switching to the metal parts. Sometimes they align more correctly and it helps. It's not necessary by any means.
Jasmine2501 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 03:39 AM   #108 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Default

I want to dye my blades. Care to explain how to do it?
__________________
TDR/VBar
Logo 600SX 12s VBar
MSH MINI PROTOS/CGY750
AcidDrink is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 06:27 PM   #109 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Jazzy great job on the vids,Ive been building and flying planes for years but just got into the helis and they are definately a horse of a different color,Your help is much appreciated and you can set up and build mine any time Nice Job/// Dave
fatboys is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-02-2011, 02:30 PM   #110 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Default Mega Newbie

...moved to 250 build thread

Last edited by ValHeli; 01-02-2011 at 11:37 PM..
ValHeli is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-03-2011, 07:54 PM   #111 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,605
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValHeli View Post
...moved to 250 build thread
I did not see where you moved it. Basically though, your heli is probably ok - might need some tail gain adjustment and stuff. However, there is a little skill to launching these things - you can't just throttle it up. See, the tail is pushing really hard to the left - some of this force is used to cancel the reaction force from the main drive, but some of the force remains and it pushes directly left - as if you were pushing to the left on the main shaft, not on the tail. In a hover, you will notice that the helicopter leans to the right just a little bit to counteract this force. During take-off, it is a little more tricky, and most helicopter take-offs do have a little swish to the left - it's ok if you manage it and don't let it become "fast sideways flight"

I do not advise flying 250-size helicopters in your house.
Jasmine2501 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-03-2011, 10:37 PM   #112 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine2501 View Post
I did not see where you moved it.

I do not advise flying 250-size helicopters in your house.
Hi Jasmine, thanks for the advice You must've read my post before I removed it. After I posted it, I was looking through your thread for a similar problem then I read your comment on one guy to move his concern to the build thread.

Anyway, does the drift have anything to do with the main blade pitch? I noticed that after setting swash mix to 40, i get less than 11. As for rudder I did a full left - right pirouette while at 20-25% w/ gyro sens (is this the gain?) at 0:35, 1:35. No wag when I did it slowly, but there was one when done fast. - So I guess I should lower the gyro sens on both modes?

As for the indoor thing, it's very windy /rainy outside here in Iraq this time of year. So I decided to start doing the 10 step (packs) program by Radd's Flight School wherein i'm limited inside a 1 sq ft box on the floor and control the heli while keeping the skids flat. The most i'll do indoors is scoot the heli around on skids.
ValHeli is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2011, 12:32 PM   #113 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,605
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Yeah sometimes I put a post up on the screen and I need to think about it for a while, then I can respond. When I went to reply, it disappeared


I think you're talking about a bounce, not a tail wag. Tail wag from too much gain is a forceful oscillation that doesn't go away. Turn up the gain until this happens, then back it off a little bit. The bounce is something very hard to get rid of - just don't stop the tail so fast and it won't be a problem.
Jasmine2501 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2011, 01:21 PM   #114 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Default

when i gave it full left or right rudder it does a couple of stop and gos -- this is bounce?

.. gyro sense = gain? what about delay?

finally, blade pitch has nothing to do with drift?
ValHeli is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2011, 06:10 PM   #115 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,605
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValHeli View Post
when i gave it full left or right rudder it does a couple of stop and gos -- this is bounce?

.. gyro sense = gain? what about delay?

finally, blade pitch has nothing to do with drift?
Other than putting more load on the disc and possibly causing an increase in the reaction force, no the blade pitch shouldn't affect the tail drift. If you put too much pitch and bogged the motor, then you can harm tail control - but the root cause is a head speed problem.

I am not sure what you mean by stop and go. When you spin around and then stop, the tail may over-shoot and come back - that's a bounce, and it's hard to get rid of.
Jasmine2501 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-03-2012, 03:48 PM   #116 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,447
 

Join Date: May 2011
Default

Hey there Jasmine. I took in your Vids off youtube last night to see just what I am getting into. Good job. Very informative. I also read the manual online. Seems pretty basic in the end. The programming part was looking a bit daunting after dealing with my car alarm for the past few years. But your vids showed just how simple it is in comparison. I am sure my Trex 250 experience will be a blast with these resources for my build. Can't wait to put down the Sim and MCPx for a bit and fly a real RC Heli.
litehawkdown is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-03-2012, 05:26 PM   #117 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,605
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Thanks! It is really cool that people still find these useful after so many years. I'm glad people are still flying the 250 - it is a ton of fun!
Jasmine2501 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-05-2012, 05:27 PM   #118 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,447
 

Join Date: May 2011
Default

You seemed to have nailed this heli down for yourself. I assume that starting this build thread has forced your hand to try and gain as much if not more knowledge about this little guy then Align itself. LOL Anyhow your quite helpful and respond quite quickly to questions in this thread. I was just wondering what your take is on the SE's GP 780 gyro? I read that it is effected by weather and can cause tail issues and such. Is it something that is smart to upgrade? Sorry if you touched on this earlier.
litehawkdown is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-05-2012, 09:04 PM   #119 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,458
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Default

Sometimes the bounce is cause by the gyro. I have a T-500 with 780 gyro. It has a bounce I can't get rid off.
When I convert to FBL with uBeast, the bounce gone.
pinguin is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-05-2012, 09:20 PM   #120 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,605
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by litehawkdown View Post
You seemed to have nailed this heli down for yourself. I assume that starting this build thread has forced your hand to try and gain as much if not more knowledge about this little guy then Align itself. LOL Anyhow your quite helpful and respond quite quickly to questions in this thread. I was just wondering what your take is on the SE's GP 780 gyro? I read that it is effected by weather and can cause tail issues and such. Is it something that is smart to upgrade? Sorry if you touched on this earlier.
I use the 780 on my 450 Pro, and I can't say I have any problems with it, but it took me a few flights to get it working good. I think one thing I've learned from the 250 is that often you can 'overcome' a mechanical issue by changing electronics. When the 250 first came out, people were overcoming the tail defect by using a huge servo. I do not think this is the best way to solve the issue.

So, I suggest, if you're having trouble with the tail, work on the mechanics first. Make sure you're using a quality servo and the linkage is tight, and the setup is all correct geometry and everything. Then if you're still having trouble, it really depends on what the specific issue is - for example, if you're having bounce, it could be you letting the stick bounce, or it could be an incorrect delay setting, wrong gain setting, slow servo, etc...

My point is - don't be too quick to blame the electronics, blame the mechanics and settings first. If you're sure all that stuff is perfect, then maybe blame the gyro...
Jasmine2501 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1