Component selection - Intrepid gasser

[lperagallo]

Eric,

Help me understand what you mean. Why would you need to flip between flight modes. Just set up a "V" throttle curve and you should be fine.

In normal I have a curve that doesn't allow for inverted flight. Then Idle1 is set up with a "V" curve to get me headspeed of 1,680 with Idle2 set up in a "V" to get me 1,790 headspeed.

I hold inverted off the top of loops and have no issues. I do stationary flips and rolls in Idle2 with no issues. I generally hold inverted for a second in a flip to manage the collective effectively.

Lou

[cbergen]

I DO have the experience, and I choose to NOT use a governor!!

[rbort]

You're a manufacturer not a flyer!

Lou, for the hidden menu settings you asked me about:

LmHv set down to 0% from initial setting of 20%.
Glmt set down to 25% from initial setting of 35%

Those will greatly reduce the overspeeding the a governor on a gasser. They are more suitable since a gas motor likes to run with a lot of power at much lower throttle settings than a nitro motor.

To get into the hidden menu, hold both func - and + down while powering up. Then func - or + over to those parameters and use the data - key to lower them.

Hope this helps,

-=>Raja.

[rccardude04]

Originally Posted by lperagallo

Eric,

Help me understand what you mean. Why would you need to flip between flight modes. Just set up a "V" throttle curve and you should be fine.

In normal I have a curve that doesn't allow for inverted flight. Then Idle1 is set up with a "V" curve to get me headspeed of 1,680 with Idle2 set up in a "V" to get me 1,790 headspeed.

I hold inverted off the top of loops and have no issues. I do stationary flips and rolls in Idle2 with no issues. I generally hold inverted for a second in a flip to manage the collective effectively.

Lou

Are you flying 710s or 800+ blades?

When I flare to stop my gasser or lose a lot of altitude with autorotation-type pitches involved, my headspeed shoots WAY higher than it should be if I just use a normal V curve. Try some fast forward flight then flare to a slow, controlled stop. If you're not flying 800+ blades on a gasser then it probably doesn't apply. The 710s don't create as much windmill effect and the turbine has the equivalent of a built-in governor if I understand it correctly.

Doing loops/rolls/flips requires idle2 for me. Forward flight and stall turns pretty much requires idle1.

-Eric

[cbergen]

You're a manufacturer not a flyer!

Meaning what? You've flown a few models with a handful of different setups. I've built and flown Hundreds of models, with every flavor of setup you can think of!!

Eric, The Turbine does NOT use any kind of built in Governor, but that argument is usually confined to the Turbine forum....

I am VERY certain I could work on your setup in your radio to make it so that a governor was not NEEDED to fly without overspeeding.

A governor may make it EASIER to setup for 3d style flying, but as pointed out, the OP is NOT in that arena as of yet.

We, as the manufacturer, also do NOT recommend the use of a governor on a new machine or for a new person to gassers DUE to the additional difficulties that it can cause with trying to tune the engine properly. A governor should ONLY be used after the engine is tuned correctly.

But I'm only the manufacturer, not a flyer.....

[rccardude04]

I don't have overspeeding now. But idle 1 and 2 are set differently.

Idle 1 won't overspeed in an agressive flare, and idle 2 will. But harder aerobatics must be done in idle 2. Stall turns and what not work in idle 1. Granted, you can just let it overspeed and honestly I don't know what kind of RPM it's hitting. But I bet it's up around 1,800.

-Eric

[cbergen]

Overspeeding on a governor is also helped by using Mal's throttle Offset setup, as discussed before,


https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=94780

[srhammett]

Whoa guys. I'll buy both!

I'm still having some trouble with my linkages. Every time I think I've got it all smoothed out, something starts buzzing again. My collective servo especially; I'm taking it off and doing the whole disk over. Meanwhile - this is a little new to me - please tell me these big digital servos can take some abuse before they kick the bucket. How much damage does a little sustained buzzing do? I'm trying to avoid it, of course, but it seems inevitable during this setup. That collective servo - it seems so finicky, I swear.

Stu

[rbort]

Meaning you build and setup many helicopters for folks and such and make sure they hover and fly. Its not like everyday you're going out and 3d's the snot out of your pants. Being in the business you probably hardly have time to fly unless you're setting up something for someone.

You can tweak a throttle curve all you want, and then you'll also have to use MIX's to add throttle when you give cyclic inputs, add throttle when you right rudder, and reduce power when you left rudder. That will get everything closer but there will still be situations where it won't work properly because of too much load or too little load. A governor takes all of that away and relieves you of throttle curve fiddling. All you need to do it get it close enough for backup purposes in case you turn the governor off or it fails.

Sure I agree don't use a governor when the motor is new and you're setting it up, but I also think you can use it momentarily to set curves and listen to the right headspeed that you are after as I indicated above negating the need for a tach and a buddy to tach for you (use it like a tach)

You are a manufacturer and no-one is discrediting you from all you know and all you've done with the hobby. The point was being a manufacturer you don't need to use a governor and practically you don't really get to the point where you can benefit from one while setting up helis that you build to test fly for customers. I've worked with your helis as well as others and been the pilot of Bergen machines that were built and setup from the factory, and by no means did they need a governor to get off the ground.

But when you're a flyer and you go out there and log flight after flight after flight, you soon realize how much easier and better it is to setup a heli with a governor and make it 3d perfectly. Who wants to keep playing around with throttle curves while you can have a gv-1 control the throttle and maintain a constant head speed for you so that the tail will stay locked during maneuvers. And if you fly with curves, some day when the temps change and you need to tweak your needles some, its going to throw off all your curves again. Adjusting needles is like adjusting curves, they both speed up and slow down the engine.

Anyway, Stuart if you want to get a tach go for it. Should you decide to get a governor, I think the money is better spent there. Down the road you will use it alot more than you will ever use the tach. And you will never use a tach yourself, someone else has to use it for you.

As far as servo buzzing, digital servos do buzz anyways with just any sort of weight or load on them. So don't be too concerned about buzzing with no stick inputs. If you go to the extremes and they buzz louder, then they are binding and you need to address that.

-=>Raja.

[rccardude04]

Originally Posted by cbergen

Overspeeding on a governor is also helped by using Mal's throttle Offset setup, as discussed before,


https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=94780

*sigh*

I don't have a governor. That's why I have overspeeding.

I've done the linkage mod already.

-Eric

[cbergen]

Well, as discussed before, just having a governor is NOT a guarantee of preventing overspeeding!!

Proper setup is the key, With a governor or without. That's kinda my point, with the proper setup of pitch and throttle curves it IS possible. I agree for 3D style flying it is EASIER and quicker.

HOWEVER, Stu said this in his first post,

I am very inexperienced, having only built two 450 electrics. For that reason (as well as spreading out the costs), I'm not going to try to learn, select and buy everything at once. I'm going to take a "just in time" approach, staying with good concensus component choices.

He has no need for a governor at this point, it would only aid to confuse things.

Raja, don't patronize me, and DAMN sure don't assume that YOUR experience flying a few helicopters is in any way BETTER for recomendations to MY customers flying MY helicopters.

MY recommendations stem from the desire to see MY customers succeed in building and flying their helicopter that they purchased from ME. Not to sell them more gadgets than they need, not to be some big name on the internet that everyone refers to, only to have happy, hopefully REPEAT customers for MY Business.

[srhammett]

Originally Posted by lperagallo

Stu,

PM me your address and I'll send you out a couple of quarts of Penzoil.

Lou

Lou - PM on the way - really a generous offer!

My thread is turning into a virtual love-fest!

[Pinecone]

Which Pennzoil is being used? I hit their site and they have a few different 2 stroke oils. The only one that seems to say full synthetic is the Pennzoil Marine Full Synthetic Oil. The others appear to be synthetic blends. But I can only find it in gallons.

Interestingly, WRT Chris's statement about being thicker, its viscosity indiex (VI) is 141 versus 200 for Klotz Techniplate.

[cbergen]

That IS interesting!!

http://www.pennzoil.com/products/mar...#FullSynthetic

The stuff at the top of the page.

I used to find it at Wally World, now it seems only available at the better boat places like Bass Pro Shops or Cabella's...

[Pinecone]

I can only find listings of that in gallons.

[srhammett]

Hey guys. I was looking at a .pdf file Chris did on rebuilding a tail gearbox. It says to allow for a little backlash when you set the new gear mesh.

I noticed even before I mounted it that my tail gearbox is pretty tight. ( -Alright now, no wise comments - this is a family website~ ) I can't detect any backlash. Do you think it'll loosen up with some use, or should I take it apart and readjust the mesh? Or Chris, do you want to have a look at it?

Boy, I'd rather not have to extract that thing from the boom. Might take a blowtorch. Talk about tight!

Stu

[cbergen]

Is the gearbox smooth spinning with no backlash, or does it feel rough?

You did put some grease on the o-rings for the bearing carrier? If it took a lot of force to install the TT drive then you may have tightened up the mesh in the gearbox.

[srhammett]

It's smooth. I can spin the main rotor head easily by spinning the tail shaft between thumb and forefinger.

I greased everything, but that's a hard assembly. I about gave myself a hernia shoving that carrier down the tube! And it was really tough getting the gearbox shaft end down into the arrow shaft - some banging was unavoidable :o. But I am pretty sure those gears were snug to start with.

[cbergen]

Did you cut both ends of the arrow shaft?

The manufactured end of the shaft may NOT be to the proper size on the inside, which is why the manual says to cut the ends off 1" then measure for length.

[srhammett]

Originally Posted by cbergen

Did you cut both ends of the arrow shaft?

The manufactured end of the shaft may NOT be to the proper size on the inside, which is why the manual says to cut the ends off 1" then measure for length.

Where's it say that? All I see is where it says to cut the measured amount off of the front end.