Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopters > Main Forum - Helicopter Talk


Main Forum - Helicopter Talk R/C Helicopters and the people who fly them. VENDOR TOPICS DO NOT GO HERE. Full Scale Heli threads go in OT please


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2009, 05:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 18,335
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoverHeaven View Post
Popsicle's reply isn't quite on the mark - the flybar doesn't provide any stability whatsoever, what it does is to reduce the response rate of the rotor disc to the pilots inputs.
Look at this analogy - if you place a 6-foot long pole vertically on the palm of your hand, you can balance it upright quite easily. this is because it "falls over" more slowly than you are able to respond to, or "chase", its movement.
Now try the same thing with a 6-inch pencil - it "falls over" much more quickly - too quickly for your human responses, and thus you can't keep it balanced.
This size analogy holds true for rotors directly connected to the swash - the smaller the rotor, the quicker it responds, until a point is reached where it is too quick for the human pilot to respond to or "chase".
The flybar system is actually a method of controlling the main rotor via a slower responding system which has a "chase rate" slow enough for the human pilot to anticipate - typically half a second or so, which can be changed, for example, by adding weights to the flybar to reduce the response or chase rate, (which incidentally has no effect on the stability of the system, but simply makes it easier for the pilot to follow), or by shortening the flybar or using bigger or lighter paddles to increase or speed up the chase rate
Hope this helps you to understand what the flybar does.
Flybars DO add stabililty, but gyroscopic effect. That is why they are used on full scale Bell helicopters.

And that is why changing just the weight on the flybar changes the helis response. For the ulitmate in stability just look at a coaxial. Top rotor is just controlled by a weighted flybar.
__________________
Terry
AMA#47402, IRCHA # 3395
Blade CP "Pro", Trex 450SE, PiccoZ, Quick of Japan EP8v2 EX, Hurricane 550, Hurricane 200, JR Vibe 50, Blade mCX, Bergen Intrepid Gasser, Pantera 50, Blade mSR, Novus CP
Pinecone is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-23-2009, 05:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,166
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Apr 2007
Default

Flybarless helis just rock... that's all there is to it!

What does a flybar do...
  • robs your engine of power
  • slows down your cyclic response
  • swipes some of that cool heli blade sound
  • adds a bunch of clockwork to tinker with
  • looks like those old external headgear type braces
  • bends and breaks on impact
  • makes initial setup take three times longer
  • you know you like threading all those little linkage rods

A flybarless heli is just another way of doing business. Of course, I think it's the best way but I'm probably a little biased at this point. If you want to get the truth about these setups, don't listen to all the naysayers. Get an opinion from someone who has successfully set one up and see what they like about it. Sure it a learning curve... but I think there are quite a few of us in this hobby who seem to enjoy just that. Besides, flying helis ain't easy!
__________________
Jesse
T700N FBL - V-Bar w/ 3DX Head
T250 Super Pro - HS-5084MG Tail Servo
X9303
HELINHAWAII is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 06:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 153
 

Join Date: May 2008
Default

The traditional " flybar and aerofoil paddle" does not provide cyclic stability - if it did, we would all be hovering hands-off for hours at a time!

The dictionary definition of stability is "the property of a body that causes it when disturbed from a condition of equilibrium or steady motion to develop forces or moments that restore the original condition" and clearly the traditional flybar does not do this. (I am not concerned here with coaxial type weighted flybars with massive gyroscopic effect and zero aerodynamic effect, and where the pilot has no control over the feedback loop).

Look at my original analogy of a six foot pole versus a six inch pencil - one topples slowly enough to be corrected, the other topples so fast we can't keep up with it. Most people would describe the long pole as having more "stability" than the pencil, but they are both equally unstable - try standing the six foot pole upright on its rounded end, or the pencil on its point!

So it's down to response rate again - and the primary purpose of the flybar, as I said in my previous post, is to reduce the cyclic response rate of the main rotor disc to a point where it is within the limits of the pilots ability to keep up with it.
HoverHeaven is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 08:28 AM   #24 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 18,335
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

Still disagree. The paddle shape is the "power steering" portion of the flybar system. The weight of the paddles adds stability.

Try adding a couple of wheel collars to each side of the flybar out at the paddles and see what happens.

It does TWO things at once.
__________________
Terry
AMA#47402, IRCHA # 3395
Blade CP "Pro", Trex 450SE, PiccoZ, Quick of Japan EP8v2 EX, Hurricane 550, Hurricane 200, JR Vibe 50, Blade mCX, Bergen Intrepid Gasser, Pantera 50, Blade mSR, Novus CP
Pinecone is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 10:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 153
 

Join Date: May 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
Still disagree. The paddle shape is the "power steering" portion of the flybar system. The weight of the paddles adds stability.
Partial agreement, Pinecone. Yes, the paddles do provide the forces required to displace the plane of rotation of the flybar disc - but the weight of the paddles (or weights added anywhere along the flybar), adds mass, not stability, to the system, increasing its angular momentum and thus its resistance to change plane. Again, this increases perceived rather than actual stability. True stability can be seen in a plank with lots of dihedral, where a momentary roll is self correcting; this of course does not happen with our single rotor/flybar helis - because they remain inherently unstable, regardless of how much weight we add to the flybar.

By the way, Pinecone, excellent build videos on the Bergen - Thanks!
HoverHeaven is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 10:57 AM   #26 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 186
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotormonkey View Post
Full scale helis have a lot more mass in the blades and therefore more gyroscopic effect, and therefore more stabilization. Same applies for RC models. You CAN just remove the flybar without an electronic stabilization system. Do it on a 450, and you're going to crash. Do it on a 90, and maybe not. Or so I've heard anyway.

Edit: Dangit!! Ya beat me to it!
Erm hi,Im just wondering but our blades is much more heavier than our flybar paddles right? are they not enough??im just wondering flybars are so light and their length is short i still do not know why they can do a significant change in performance,im not shooting you im just directing a question at you
__________________
«Kira'sHanger™®»:
Trex450se v2 clone,awaiting motor!
sim:
My latest manuvere:
Piro Snake
kiratime is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 10:58 AM   #27 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,809
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default

enough debate...let's see one.

here's a local 700N vbar setup that is finally dialed in after a few weeks of tinkering. EVERYONE should get their mits on one of these for at least one tank. (not me flying...but, i've got 2-3 tanks under my belt)

note, that because of the electronic stabilization you can run much lower headspeeds with zero negative effects. in fact one REALLY cool effect in the video is the sync between shutter speed and headspeed. check out the piroflips at ~1:38 or the hurricanes at ~2:00. makes it almost look like a glider

__________________
˙ʇı ʞɐǝɹq 'ǝʞoɹq ʇ,uıɐ ʇı ɟı
cudaboy_71 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 01:23 PM   #28 (permalink)
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jan 2009
Default

its pretty funny how people get technical saying flybars don't add stability. yet if you take off your flybar you need an electronic stability devise.

If you remove your flybar, your heli will become less stable. flybars add stability period. no need for an engineering degree.
HazPat is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 01:51 PM   #29 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 153
 

Join Date: May 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HazPat View Post
its pretty funny how people get technical saying flybars don't add stability. yet if you take off your flybar you need an electronic stability devise.

If you remove your flybar, your heli will become less stable. flybars add stability period. no need for an engineering degree.
You're confusing stability with controllability. If you remove your flybar, your heli will become less controllable,or even uncontrollable.Flybars add controllability.
A heli never has stability, It will never return to a hover on its its own after a cyclic input. A pendulum has stability: it will eventually return to its original state after a disturbance. Hope this clears things up a little.
HoverHeaven is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 02:20 PM   #30 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,815
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoverHeaven View Post
You're confusing stability with controllability. If you remove your flybar, your heli will become less controllable,or even uncontrollable.Flybars add controllability.
A heli never has stability, It will never return to a hover on its its own after a cyclic input. A pendulum has stability: it will eventually return to its original state after a disturbance. Hope this clears things up a little.
I think most confuse the two meanings. I've used the term a stable hovering helicopter and realized after the fact technically speaking that I'm wrong. No biggie. I prefer the term solid over stable.
The mcx has stability.
A helicopter without an electronic stabilization system is far from being stable.

Here's the dictionary meaning.
sta⋅bil⋅i⋅ty   /stəˈbɪlɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [stuh-bil-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties. 1. the state or quality of being stable.
2. firmness in position.
3. continuance without change; permanence.
4. Chemistry. resistance or the degree of resistance to chemical change or disintegration.
5. resistance to change, esp. sudden change or deterioration: The stability of the economy encourages investment.
6. steadfastness; constancy, as of character or purpose: The job calls for a great deal of emotional stability.
7. Aeronautics. the ability of an aircraft to return to its original flying position when abruptly displaced.
8. Roman Catholic Church. a vow taken by a Benedictine monk, binding him to residence for life in the same monastery in which he made the vow.
__________________
Fury55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90 and a clone450NOBAR
Burning Nitro and Electrons simultaneously
heli-cuzz is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 02:25 PM   #31 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,470
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default "Stable" is not necessarily just a synonym for "auto-hover".

Besides aptly put "power steering" yes, a mechanical Flybar absolutely adds stability to a helicopter. Period. If you think not, take yours off and just chalk it up to being "out of control". Stability has many meanings.

Because my job doesn't make dramatic changes very quickly doesn't mean it hovers by itself...
__________________
Jeff

I do not have to be politically correct. I am not a politician.
K-50 / 500ESP /450SEv2 /H200SD / mCX / RF4.5 / 10C 2.4GHz
Ecklund1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 02:30 PM   #32 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,470
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoverHeaven View Post
You're confusing stability with controllability. If you remove your flybar, your heli will become less controllable,or even uncontrollable.Flybars add controllability.
A heli never has stability, It will never return to a hover on its its own after a cyclic input. A pendulum has stability: it will eventually return to its original state after a disturbance. Hope this clears things up a little.
Sorry. No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heli-cuzz View Post
I think most confuse the two meanings. I've used the term a stable hovering helicopter and realized after the fact technically speaking that I'm wrong. No biggie. I prefer the term solid over stable.
The mcx has stability.
A helicopter without an electronic stabilization system is far from being stable.

Here's the dictionary meaning.
sta⋅bil⋅i⋅ty   /stəˈbɪlɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [stuh-bil-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties. 1. the state or quality of being stable.
2. firmness in position.
3. continuance without change; permanence.
4. Chemistry. resistance or the degree of resistance to chemical change or disintegration.
5. resistance to change, esp. sudden change or deterioration: The stability of the economy encourages investment.
6. steadfastness; constancy, as of character or purpose: The job calls for a great deal of emotional stability.
7. Aeronautics. the ability of an aircraft to return to its original flying position when abruptly displaced.
8. Roman Catholic Church. a vow taken by a Benedictine monk, binding him to residence for life in the same monastery in which he made the vow.
You're not confused. The terms applies just fine.
__________________
Jeff

I do not have to be politically correct. I am not a politician.
K-50 / 500ESP /450SEv2 /H200SD / mCX / RF4.5 / 10C 2.4GHz
Ecklund1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 02:32 PM   #33 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 41,326
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jul 2007
Default

Semantics. The American Heritage Dictionary provides two pertinent definitions:

1. The state or quality of being stable, especially:
a. Resistance to change, deteriorization, or displacement.

2. The ability of an object, such as a ship or aircraft, to maintain equilibrium or resume it's original, upright position after displacement, as by sea or strong winds.

HoverHeaven is using the second definition; the rest of us are using the first.
__________________
Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal)
HeliFreak Support
Protos Max Evo 700 (Brain 2), Protos Max V2 770 (iKON 2), Synergy 516 (Brain 2), Oxy 2 (Falcon 12)
Graupner MZ-32

Experience is something you gain only after you need it.
I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people.
TheBum is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 02:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,166
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Apr 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cudaboy_71 View Post
enough debate...let's see one.
Aaahhhh... a thing of beauty cudaboy! G*D D*MN I love flybarless!

I too have discovered running a lower headspeed at say, 1650-1750 will give you about a 12 minutes flight and is nice and slow for learning new maneuvers. It affects nothing other than the "pop". Cyclic is still just as fast as if your were running 1950. And stable... as a test yesterday here in HI where the winds were blowing 20-25MPH, I set my heli in a hover about 10ft in front of me and piro'd for about a solid minute without touching the cyclic controls whatsoever. And in forward flight, just put the nose down and go. Whole straight runs down the field can be done at 80mph without ever touching the cyclic.... in big winds.

Dunno fellas... you guys are missing out!
__________________
Jesse
T700N FBL - V-Bar w/ 3DX Head
T250 Super Pro - HS-5084MG Tail Servo
X9303
HELINHAWAII is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 04:20 PM   #35 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 18,335
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

Mathematical Modeling and Experimental Identification of an Unmanned Helicopter Robot with Flybar Dynamics
S. K. Kim, D. M. Tilbury *
Department of Mechanical Engineering, University of Michigan, 2250 G.G. Brown, 2350 Hayward St. Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2125


Quote:
This paper presents a mathematical model for a model-scale unmanned helicopter robot, with emphasis on the dynamics of the flybar. The interaction between the flybar and the main rotor blade is explained in detail; it is shown how the flapping of the flybar increases the stability of the helicopter robot as well as assists in its actuation.
Wiki:
Quote:
Stabilizer bar
Arthur M. Young found that stability could be increased significantly with the addition of a stabilizer bar perpendicular to the two blades. The stabilizer bar has weighted ends which cause it to stay relatively stable in the plane of rotation. The stabilizer bar is linked with the swash plate in such a manner as to reduce the pitch rate. The two blades can flap as a unit and therefore do not require lag-lead hinges (the whole rotor slows down and accelerates per turn). Two bladed systems require a single teetering hinge and two coning hinges to permit modest coning of the rotor disk as thrust is increased. The configuration is known under multiple names, including Hiller panels, Hiller-system, Bell-Hiller-system, and flybar system
There are two stablities. Static and dynamic. A pendulum and aplank with high dihedral is both dynamically and statically stable. If you displace them and remove the displacement force, they will oscilate around the orignal position with smaller and smaller deviations, until it comes to rest at the original position.

You can have something that is statically stable but dynamically unstable. That is, it resists change in motion, but once the motion changes, it oscillates around the original position, but the displacement increases rather than decreases back to the original position.

You can have something that is both statically and dynamically unstable, that is once displaced, it diverges from the original position, and does not oscillate. But you can increase the static stability (but still be negative) which will increase the force needed to displace the item, but once displaced there is still no restoring force.

So a flybar DOES increase stability, but doesn't necessarily make the heli perfectly stable. By increasing the static stability, it increases the force required to displace the heli in pitch or roll. And with a heavy flybar, it does increase it to the point that for small displacements, the heli tends to right itself. But unfortunately, a heli is relatevely unstable, so that without huge weights, it won't be both statically and dynamically stable.
__________________
Terry
AMA#47402, IRCHA # 3395
Blade CP "Pro", Trex 450SE, PiccoZ, Quick of Japan EP8v2 EX, Hurricane 550, Hurricane 200, JR Vibe 50, Blade mCX, Bergen Intrepid Gasser, Pantera 50, Blade mSR, Novus CP
Pinecone is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 12:00 AM   #36 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,769
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoverHeaven View Post
The traditional " flybar and aerofoil paddle" does not provide cyclic stability - if it did, we would all be hovering hands-off for hours at a time!

The dictionary definition of stability is "the property of a body that causes it when disturbed from a condition of equilibrium or steady motion to develop forces or moments that restore the original condition" and clearly the traditional flybar does not do this. (I am not concerned here with coaxial type weighted flybars with massive gyroscopic effect and zero aerodynamic effect, and where the pilot has no control over the feedback loop).

So it's down to response rate again - and the primary purpose of the flybar, as I said in my previous post, is to reduce the cyclic response rate of the main rotor disc to a point where it is within the limits of the pilots ability to keep up with it.
Everything you've said above amounts to stability. Cyclic or otherwise. Responce rate is integrated with mass, Airfoil for cyclic changes and ratio of flybar to direct link to the main gripps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoverHeaven View Post
Partial agreement, Pinecone. Yes, the paddles do provide the forces required to displace the plane of rotation of the flybar disc - but the weight of the paddles (or weights added anywhere along the flybar), adds mass, not stability, to the system, increasing its angular momentum and thus its resistance to change plane. Again, this increases perceived rather than actual stability. True stability can be seen in a plank with lots of dihedral, where a momentary roll is self correcting; this of course does not happen with our single rotor/flybar helis - because they remain inherently unstable, regardless of how much weight we add to the flybar.
!
By way of the mixing lever and whatever the ratio is. Stability from the mass of the paddles influenses the pitch of the main blades to induce stability weather hovering or with cyclic input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoverHeaven View Post
You're confusing stability with controllability. If you remove your flybar, your heli will become less controllable,or even uncontrollable.Flybars add controllability.
A heli never has stability, It will never return to a hover on its its own after a cyclic input. A pendulum has stability: it will eventually return to its original state after a disturbance. Hope this clears things up a little.
The flybar works with or without cyclic input. Controlability and stability are two aspects of the same thing.
__________________
Sonny
http://www.myspace.com/scottsonnyyoung
Sonny is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 05:47 AM   #37 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 119
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Default

The flybar is a damped gyroscope. The flapping of the flybar paddles provides the damping force aerodynamically. The stabilizer bar, used on Hueys and Bell 47s, is also a damped gyroscope but lacks aerodynamic surfaces that fly. The stabilizer bar uses mechanical oil filled dampers for damping. The mass of the flybar or stabilizer bar controls the speed at which the bar will react. The greater the mass, the slower the bar will react.

In a windless hover, both the flybar and stabilizer bar act as a pitch and roll axis rate damper. This is the same function that a rate gyro in rate mode does for the yaw axis with a tail rotor. In forward flight the flybar will also help correct pitch trim (pitch up) but a stabilizer bar will not.

The roll rate of the main rotor is higher than the roll rate of the flybar therefore the flybar slows down or damps the main rotor motion. If a hard right roll command is given, both the rotor disk and flybar disk will start to roll to the right relative to the ground but since the roll rate of the rotor is faster than that of the flybar, the flybar will start to lag behind in the roll and will start to tilt to the left relative to the fuselage. The flybar tilts the opposite direction of the roll pulling cyclic pitch out of the rotor slowing down the roll. Eventually an equilibrium roll rate is attained when the flybar pulls enough cyclic pitch out of the main rotor that the roll rate of the rotor and flybar is equal.

A flybar or stabilizer bar will add stability but will not make the helicopter stable in hover. Maybe a better way to put it would be a flybar or stabilizer bar makes the helicopter less unstable in hover.

With Bell/Hiller mixing, the flybar does not decrease the torque required from the cyclic servos versus a flybarless head so "power steering" might be a bit misleading.

The flybar makes the model more enjoyable to fly by getting rid of bad tendencies and smoothing out pilot inputs (low pass filter). Full size typically don't use flybars or stabilizer bars because of the larger mass and correspondingly slower response time. They would also add to the weight, maintenance, and complexity and would decrease performance.
Stuka is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 11:51 AM   #38 (permalink)
NERD
 
Posts: 3,377
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuka View Post
The flybar is a damped gyroscope. The flapping of the flybar paddles provides the damping force aerodynamically. The stabilizer bar, used on Hueys and Bell 47s, is also a damped gyroscope but lacks aerodynamic surfaces that fly. The stabilizer bar uses mechanical oil filled dampers for damping. The mass of the flybar or stabilizer bar controls the speed at which the bar will react. The greater the mass, the slower the bar will react.

In a windless hover, both the flybar and stabilizer bar act as a pitch and roll axis rate damper. This is the same function that a rate gyro in rate mode does for the yaw axis with a tail rotor. In forward flight the flybar will also help correct pitch trim (pitch up) but a stabilizer bar will not.

The roll rate of the main rotor is higher than the roll rate of the flybar therefore the flybar slows down or damps the main rotor motion. If a hard right roll command is given, both the rotor disk and flybar disk will start to roll to the right relative to the ground but since the roll rate of the rotor is faster than that of the flybar, the flybar will start to lag behind in the roll and will start to tilt to the left relative to the fuselage. The flybar tilts the opposite direction of the roll pulling cyclic pitch out of the rotor slowing down the roll. Eventually an equilibrium roll rate is attained when the flybar pulls enough cyclic pitch out of the main rotor that the roll rate of the rotor and flybar is equal.

A flybar or stabilizer bar will add stability but will not make the helicopter stable in hover. Maybe a better way to put it would be a flybar or stabilizer bar makes the helicopter less unstable in hover.

With Bell/Hiller mixing, the flybar does not decrease the torque required from the cyclic servos versus a flybarless head so "power steering" might be a bit misleading.

The flybar makes the model more enjoyable to fly by getting rid of bad tendencies and smoothing out pilot inputs (low pass filter). Full size typically don't use flybars or stabilizer bars because of the larger mass and correspondingly slower response time. They would also add to the weight, maintenance, and complexity and would decrease performance.
That is probably the best and simplest to understand explination I have read on flybars. Great write up. There is more material there I'm sure but that explination is plenty.

To the OP the best way I know how to describe a flybarless R/C heli is like something has been released or lifted off. Like running without ankle weights or hiking without a backpack. The blade sound is cool and clean, and it run's smoothly. The hovers with help from the electronics is very stable. It will throw your thinking because when you see the stable hover your mind from past experience won't be expecting all that smooth hard cyclic power. It's all in the tune from there...mild scale to wild 3D requires no real mechanical change other than maybe blade type. It's just a cool experience.
__________________
Norman
Fun times and good friends.
Thrasymedes is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 01:15 PM   #39 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,769
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuka View Post
A flybar or stabilizer bar will add stability but will not make the helicopter stable in hover. Maybe a better way to put it would be a flybar or stabilizer bar makes the helicopter less unstable in hover.


The flybar makes the model more enjoyable to fly by getting rid of bad tendencies and smoothing out pilot inputs (low pass filter). Full size typically don't use flybars or stabilizer bars because of the larger mass and correspondingly slower response time. They would also add to the weight, maintenance, and complexity and would decrease performance.
Any change in attitude the model makes while HOVERING or flying in any direction, Caused by wind or thumbs, weather it's pitching forward or sideways gets dampened (stability ?), adding controlability. Simple. The mixing lever..
__________________
Sonny
http://www.myspace.com/scottsonnyyoung
Sonny is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 02:06 PM   #40 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 577
 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Default

I thought fly bars are where flies go to get drunk. I guess you learn something new everyday
Heli_freak is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1