Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopters > Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room


Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room - Tips and how-To Videos


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-20-2014, 10:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,894
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Note - these threads have been copied from the Minicopter Forum and contain some great info



Ditto!!! Satnam why is the hole so deep and large? It looks like it went in under power? BTW I have a Weller at home and that's what we use at work can't go wrong with one of them!!!
__________________
Helicopters Don't Fly - They Beat The Air Into Submission
Logo 500SE
Minicopter Diabolo 700
Banshee # 45 700 LE and 850

Last edited by Mercuriell; 12-28-2014 at 07:48 AM.. Reason: Add note
jcflyer is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-20-2014, 11:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,458
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK, Kent coast
Default

Damn, what a drag :-( 'Hate to see a Diabolo going in.

I used to struggle with soldering and used to dread it. Now I use a butane pen-torch and find it makes the whole ordeal much much easier.
__________________
2009 TDR, TDSF, Kasama Dune and Faifa, Minicopter Triabolo 700, RMJ Raptor gasser, Beam E4 and Avantgarde, JR E8 leggero, Suzi Laos, Shape S8, 'TDRex' 800, Rave 450, Trex 500.
trillian is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2014, 01:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,617
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trillian View Post
Damn, what a drag :-( 'Hate to see a Diabolo going in.

I used to struggle with soldering and used to dread it. Now I use a butane pen-torch and find it makes the whole ordeal much much easier.
+1 tinning wire with the iron then using a micro torch for bullets is the way to go just stay away from the solder with the flame otherwise the flux will flame and oxidize/ contaminate the joint,Satnam sorry to see this after all your hard work
__________________
Magneto is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2014, 02:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,500
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

That is painful to see. I think I'm going to get a better soldering iron as well
__________________
Heinseleit TDR-2 w/ Pyro 800-48/Futaba/Kosmik & NEO
DIABOLO 700 w/ XTS/Torq/Kosmik & NEO
Kraken w/ XTS/X8/Kosmik & NEO
Goblin 500 Sport w/ Xnova/BK/Jive & NEO (rebuilt)
dominoedge is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2014, 05:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 822
 

Join Date: May 2007
Default

I highly recommend Hakko for soldering irons. They make some of the best consumer/industrial irons out there. I have the Hakko FX-601 and love it. It has all the features of a full soldering station built into the handle making it fully functional and portable.
Steve_JR is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2014, 06:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 14,099
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

Sorry to see Satnam . I have struggled with big solder joints for,years. I find a gas torch ,heats the wire up too hot so solder wicks up too far and makes it rigid - fatigue risk. I have tried a few soldering stations and they haven't lasted or else not delivered the power required. I buy a cheap 80W iron from the the local hardware store, tin wire and bullet, put together and then heat bullet with iron until solder melts together and top up with a little solder wire. Needless to say I avoid politically correct solder like a plague! I wish we could get crimped bullets, that was what attracted me about the big PowerPole connectors, but they're too clunky ..
__________________
John
Mercuriell is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2014, 06:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 12,446
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercuriell View Post
Sorry to see Satnam . I have struggled with big solder joints for,years. I find a gas torch ,heats the wire up too hot so solder wicks up too far and makes it rigid - fatigue risk. I have tried a few soldering stations and they haven't lasted or else not delivered the power required. I buy a cheap 80W iron from the the local hardware store, tin wire and bullet, put together and then heat bullet with iron until solder melts together and top up with a little solder wire. Needless to say I avoid politically correct solder like a plague! I wish we could get crimped bullets, that was what attracted me about the big PowerPole connectors, but they're too clunky ..
Dang, and if a guy like you is having issues? What does that say about the rest of us? I have been soldering for close to 40 years and had a fairly extensive background in the electronics industry when I was younger. Which may mean nothing at this point. The soldering stations work great for all the small stuff, but seem to struggle with these 5.5mm and up connectors. Although I have guys with real high end versions saying they work well?
Here I found simple (yet still expensive) larger Weller irons people use for doing lead glass work reign supreme.
Saying that, on the very last group fly up here that we had this late fall. The minute my 700 touched skid down after my last fairly aggressive flight, I pulled the canopy and the wire basically fell out of the EC5.
These pics above almost made me heave.
__________________
If it can be done wrong, I will find a way to excel at it.
Luvmyhelis is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2014, 09:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,617
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Default

The secret to soldering wire and not having it travel up the wire is high heat and short contact with a tiny bit of solder on the tip to have good heat conduction contact if it takes more than around 5 seconds or so on 10ga to tin a wire then you need more power in the iron. I just have a chi generic check point station when it craps out ill go Hakko.After tinning stand up the connecter and heat with the flame then feed solder into the cup of the bullet insert the well tinned wire then heat the bullet only with the micro torch for a second or two and done. Hemostats come in handy also.
__________________
Magneto is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-20-2014, 11:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 12,446
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
The secret to soldering wire and not having it travel up the wire is high heat and short contact with a tiny bit of solder on the tip to have good heat conduction contact if it takes more than around 5 seconds or so on 10ga to tin a wire then you need more power in the iron. I just have a chi generic check point station when it craps out ill go Hakko.After tinning stand up the connecter and heat with the flame then feed solder into the cup of the bullet insert the well tinned wire then heat the bullet only with the micro torch for a second or two and done. Hemostats come in handy also.
Bottom line, very high heat and quick heat transfer.

Which larger mass Weller iron heads supply with larger heat reserves that don't tax or reduce tip heat during the transfer.
Also, Weller's never seem to die. Both mine are still running like new after 30 years.
__________________
If it can be done wrong, I will find a way to excel at it.
Luvmyhelis is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 12:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
CHC Benefactor
 
Posts: 6,442
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Singapore
Default

Sorry to see your crash Satnam

I'm also in the Weller camp. 200 Watt, large surface contact tip, temp control built into tip. Additionally, I found flux a necessity, make sure non corrosive. Finally, 63/37 solder mix. Unfortunately, I'm still learning not to wick up the leads while appearing cold joint free.
Raptorapture is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 12:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Default

I prefer to insert the tinned wire into a tinned bullet connector and have the wire held in place with a jig. It's important that the wire is in contact with the edge of the bullet connector to get the lowest resistance connection possible. I also make sure the wire is fully seated in the bottom of the bullet connector as well. Then I heat the bullet connector with a soldering iron and feed in solder until the bullet connector is full. I like to have the wire held in place with a jig while soldering because if the wire is not held perfectly still during the soldering process you can end up with a disturbed joint.
Ace Dude is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 04:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,348
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Default

Thanks for all the advise and support..
I checked the other solder joints and they are all perfect, but it only takes one to cause a failure. After my last failure (due to cold solder joint) a few months ago and subsequent problems, I was keen to get back on the saddle again. Both my failures were in the ESC connector, a lot off current going through this.
I was also trying out the IISI system in the Diabolo for the first time. The telemetry was giving me the odd low voltage warning during aggressive moves on and off in the 51/2 flights I had. I thought maybe the packs, maybe because of the higher HS I was using, now 2100/2200. I had a couple of high amp warnings too, so in retrospect this should have warned me, but to be honest it would have been hard for me to have found the fault, but easier and cheaper than rebuilding again. At the time of the failure the low voltage alarm went off, I stopped my moves and levelled off, but as the heli was quite far I did not hear the motor stop,I then proceeded to "do my thing" and wiped off all headspeed and watched it fall like a brick nose first, hence the small crater..
I use a butane torch as well but struggling with my cheap 60W Draper iron. I have ordered a Weller station now.
A lot off good tips here, thanks again. I have a pack of cheap 5.5mm bullet connectors I bought from ebay that I don't use as they look like crap. I will practice on them with 10AWG wire, over and over until I get it right. The main thing I struggle with is wicking. I have had failures due to wicking and breaking at the solder/flexible wire joint. I can see that I was trying to avoid too much solder in the cold joint that failed and this resulted in a bad joint. Ironic, I tried to avoid a fatigue failure from excessive wicking and got a cold solder joint.

Time to practice and train myself properly. Now is the time while the weather is cold .
The Kosmik is OK this time, but lost the telemetry module.
__________________
minicopter DIABOLO LOGO 550sx
scorpion spirit futaba IISI
smsodhi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 04:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 541
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Default

We use this for (nearly) all applications:


And this 150 watts iron for "cooking up" the power connectors on 6 mm˛ cables (f.e. speedmodels) to avoid any trouble (nickname: "Hot Henry" ):



For using german solder irons in the US you need this transformator (Voltcraft AT200 Nv, 200 watts) :
Gerd is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 05:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 14,099
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

I like the look of Hot Heny, Gerd, he seems my type of guy . As a few mentioned above, I find the soldering stations just don't have the guts for 5-6mm connectors - size does matter

I think a large tip that is a heat sink is the key, deep penetration into the bullet and top up the well as fast as possible commensurate with good flow. I use one of those adjustable crocodile clip holders to keep the wire still and hold the bullet in a piece of timber pre drilled to fit. I too have been soldering for well over 40 years and still find these big connectors a challenge.
__________________
John
Mercuriell is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 10:56 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smsodhi View Post

A lot off good tips here, thanks again. I have a pack of cheap 5.5mm bullet connectors I bought from ebay that I don't use as they look like crap. I will practice on them with 10AWG wire, over and over until I get it right. The main thing I struggle with is wicking. I have had failures due to wicking and breaking at the solder/flexible wire joint. I can see that I was trying to avoid too much solder in the cold joint that failed and this resulted in a bad joint. Ironic, I tried to avoid a fatigue failure from excessive wicking and got a cold solder joint.

Time to practice and train myself properly. Now is the time while the weather is cold .
The Kosmik is OK this time, but lost the telemetry module.
Sorry to hear about your Diabolo crash.

Which Weller did you get? I've been using a Weller WTCPT for the past 16-18 years with great results. I recently replaced it with a Pace for a bit more power, features, and tips sizes available since I'm starting to do some SMT PCB work as well. With the Pace the tip is a cartridge and can be easily changed while the iron is on without waiting for the tip to cool.

When I first started doing the 6.5mm Castle bullets I'm using now I also struggled with the exact same issues: getting a good joint without the solder wicking up the wire. I also had two joint failures, fortunately, they were caught on the ground. After those unacceptable failures I decided I was going do whatever it took to get it right 100% of the time.

I found it was faster, easier, and I got better consistency using a solder pot to tin the wires rather than using a soldering iron. I was making up a bunch of charging connectors at the same time too so it was a lot of wires to tin. After some more practice with 10AWG I got better with tinning just using the iron. For just a few wires I'll use the iron rather than firing up the soldering pot.

One of the key factors when soldering bullets is the thermal mass of the soldering tip. You need a big tip. For the larger bullets I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 5mm chisel tip.

I'd recommend using eutectic solder (63/37) rather than standard 60/40. With eutectic solder there is no plastic state so you significantly reduce the chances of having a disturbed joint.

Also, get some wide (e.g., 5mm+) rosin desoldering wick. You can use this to tin the bullet connector as well as remove the solder from the bullet connector to practice on the same connector over and over again (that's what I did).
Ace Dude is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 01:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,348
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Default

Thanks for the advice Ace Dude. I am glad to see I am not alone here. I think as one pushes harder these "little" details become more important.

I have ordered a Weller WD2M Station, Weller WP80 iron and a Weller WDH 10T rest with stop and go function. The Power supply is capable of handling an iron up to 160W , and two outputs. I have also now asked for a 5mm chisel tip as you suggested. I may get a more powerful iron for it in the future.
I ordered some of the rosin desoldering wick a couple of days ago. I stumbled over this while researching.
The soldering pot looks useful, surprisingly inexpensive too.. I wondered how the electronics we get with pre tinned wires look so perfectly done.
__________________
minicopter DIABOLO LOGO 550sx
scorpion spirit futaba IISI
smsodhi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 08:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 14,099
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

I bought a soldering pot, it's good if you have a batch of,wires to tin and has that 'thermal mass' we like to quickly run and limit wick. I've found too that for just the odd pair of wires though it's not worth the effort firing up. This is a great discusson and lots of good tips, I think I may copy over to the TechnRoom for reference !
__________________
John
Mercuriell is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 08:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 14,099
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

I bought a soldering pot, it's good if you have a batch of,wires to tin and has that 'thermal mass' we like to quickly run and limit wick. I've found too that for just the odd pair of wires though it's not worth the effort firing up. This is a great discusson and lots of good tips, I think I may copy over to the TechnRoom for reference !
__________________
John
Mercuriell is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2014, 09:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smsodhi View Post
The soldering pot looks useful, surprisingly inexpensive too.. I wondered how the electronics we get with pre tinned wires look so perfectly done.
That's the secret to how they get those wires tinned so well. Just never use rosin core solder in a solder pot. The rosin fumes are dangerous to breath. I got a bar of Kester 63/37 solder for use in my solder pot.
Ace Dude is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2014, 04:28 AM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,348
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Default

Just wondering...is all 63/37 solder eutectic? or do we have to look specifically for a eutectic 63/37 solder. Would you recommend to get one with a rosin solder core, for the solder to be used for the iron, not the pot?

Sorry for these basic questions. Thanks
__________________
minicopter DIABOLO LOGO 550sx
scorpion spirit futaba IISI
smsodhi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1