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Old 10-30-2009, 04:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 2kg load and T-Rex 600E?

I have currently camera mount for a small DSLR on my T-Rex 500 but I'm looking for a bigger ship for slightly bigger camera. I'm going to build a dedicated AP ship as my 500 is now a mixed 3D/AP/sports machine with an easy to remove underslug camera mount.

So, my question really is how well does a T-Rex 600 ESP lift a 2kg (about 4.4lb) load?

I'm planning to run the heli on stock setup (Align motor & ESC), 6S 5000mAh packs, flybarless, stock 600mm blades. I'm not looking for crazy long flight times, 6 minutes will do just fine for now. Camera mount would be something similar to PhotoShip One 2XPT front mount. I'm estimating the payload (camera + mount) to be around 2 kilograms in total.

Is stock 600 enough or should I shoot straight for streching it? I really would like to run the system on 6S ~5000mAh packs but I'm willing to change the motor & the ESC if I really have to.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Why don't you use the stock setup for a while first. If you don't like it then stretch it. I was flying mine stock for the longest time with no problem. Four and a half pound is about the most I will comfortably pull up with the 600e for day in day out operations. You should be able to get 6 minutes with a good motor. I am not sure if I like the stock Align motor. It will work but I don't think it is that efficient.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:04 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Why don't you use the stock setup for a while first. If you don't like it then stretch it.
So very true. I was just thinking if 2kg is pushing it I would strecht the heli right away. That would save me some money and some work.

Speaking of stretching... Can a 600 ESP be streched using T-Rex 700 tail boom and torque tube and stock 600 ESP head? Anything special to take note of?
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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yes a trex 600 can lift it
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Nominally the Trex 600 e is most happy at around 3.5 pound payload. Another pound won't hurt it as long as you keep on checking the parts. The main shaft radial bearings will definitely wear out after a while. Then again they will wear out at 3.5 pounds payload.

Your motor choice is probably the biggest factor.

Yes, you can use a Trex 700 tail boom with torque tube but you do have to convert the 600e to torque tube drive first so you can use the gear box in front. I don't think the Trex 700 gear box will fit the 600. You may also have to machine the diameter of the 700 tail boom just a little bit for a good fit. I know mine is cut down a little but I didn't do the conversion myself.
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Nominally the Trex 600 e is most happy at around 3.5 pound payload. Another pound won't hurt it as long as you keep on checking the parts. The main shaft radial bearings will definitely wear out after a while. Then again they will wear out at 3.5 pounds payload.

Your motor choice is probably the biggest factor.
Allright! Maybe I will just start with stock setup and see what that does. If the heli lacks power I'll change the motor (to something...?) and ESC (to Castle ICE).

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Yes, you can use a Trex 700 tail boom with torque tube but you do have to convert the 600e to torque tube drive first so you can use the gear box in front. I don't think the Trex 700 gear box will fit the 600. You may also have to machine the diameter of the 700 tail boom just a little bit for a good fit. I know mine is cut down a little but I didn't do the conversion myself.
Yes, I remember reading somewhere the 700 boom needs to be cut down like 30 or 40 millimeters. No biggie. I'm planning to order the 600 ESP so the front gear box will be there already.

Thanks for the tips!
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Oh well. I stumbled upon T-Rex 600E sub-forum here at Helifreaks and soon found several stories about burning stock ESC's and failing motors. So, I would really have to ditch those as soon as I open the box and get something better. And if I would get a new ESC and motor I would not have to necessarily go with 6S setup. I read at the 600E forum that a 6S setup will be really hard on batteries even in normal flying; let alone with an extra load of 2kg.

So, I'm now confused about the cell counts... Should I go 6S, 10S or 12S? Price is really not a factor to me as higher cell count would also mean longer pack life expectancy. What I'm really uncertain about is what would be the optimum cell count and mAh rating for best weight to power ratio? An AP ship would not need the crazy wattage most 10S or 12S setups seem to have (designed for 3D) and I have found no specs on any 10S or 12S setup for AP - let alone comparison between 6S and 10/12S setups conserning weight, power, durability and flight times.

A big minus for the 10S or 12S setups is the need for having two batteries. It's always twice the work changing and charging them. I would also need to get a new charger to be able to charge two batts simultaneously. But then again, wearing out a 6S 5000mAh pack after 50 cycles would suck big time, too.

Now it seems like I would go first with 6S setup (Castle ICE esc and maybe Scorpion motor - even though I have had some hard time with Scorpions before) and if after ~50 cycles the batts were dead I would go with 10S or 12S. I just would not like to buy things twice and spend the extra on just experimenting. This is my first AP ship I build from the scratch just for AP and I would like to get things close to right the first time.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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after about 50 flights on my trex600e doing 3d on a total stock setup i made it my AP bird and now closing in on flight 70 or so i see no problems even with the stock setup. ohh and the total weight of the mount, camera, and all up heli is 16.6 lbs
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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>> I stumbled upon T-Rex 600E sub-forum here at Helifreaks and soon found several stories about burning stock ESC's and failing motors.<<

If I remembered correctly the problem with my stock motor and ESC setup was the hard start. It spooled up way too quick for my taste. Also the motor got pretty hot. I still have the stock motor and ESC and they have not failed yet (not using them may be the reason why they haven't failed)

>> So, I would really have to ditch those as soon as I open the box and get something better. And if I would get a new ESC and motor I would not have to necessarily go with 6S setup. I read at the 600E forum that a 6S setup will be really hard on batteries even in normal flying; let alone with an extra load of 2kg.<<

No, 6s setup is not hard on batteries. I am still flying 6s right now on my Trex 600e stretched. My Raptor e620 is harder on the 6s batteries than the Trex 600e. The batteries and motor comes down luke warm on my Trex 600e.

>>So, I'm now confused about the cell counts... Should I go 6S, 10S or 12S? Price is really not a factor to me as higher cell count would also mean longer pack life expectancy. What I'm really uncertain about is what would be the optimum cell count and mAh rating for best weight to power ratio? An AP ship would not need the crazy wattage most 10S or 12S setups seem to have (designed for 3D) and I have found no specs on any 10S or 12S setup for AP - let alone comparison between 6S and 10/12S setups conserning weight, power, durability and flight times.<<

It is proven that you don't gain flight duration with higher voltage and lower capacity cells. I am a believer of using the highest capacity cell with the proper voltage not higher voltage for the sake of higher voltage.

That said, the reason why a lot of user going to higher voltage is because if you look around at the various motors you will realize that the bigger motors generally have lower kV so with limited gear ratio you are forced to use higher voltage to get the efficiency from the motor.

The trick is to always use as big a motor as you can so you are not overloading the motor. Heat is your enemy.

>>A big minus for the 10S or 12S setups is the need for having two batteries. It's always twice the work changing and charging them. I would also need to get a new charger to be able to charge two batts simultaneously. But then again, wearing out a 6S 5000mAh pack after 50 cycles would suck big time, too. <<

If you fly periodically your battery packs will be fine. For any equipment the more infrequent you use them the more trouble you will get. The advantage from having two battery packs is that if one fail you can buy another one. IF a BIG capacity 6s fail you have to replace the entire pack.

Real estate is also an issue in the Trex 600e. You have limited space to mount the batteries. Check out the battery size before purchasing. I have fit 6s 6400 mah pack on my Trex 600 e no problem but 8000 mah will be a problem.

>>Now it seems like I would go first with 6S setup (Castle ICE esc and maybe Scorpion motor - even though I have had some hard time with Scorpions before) and if after ~50 cycles the batts were dead I would go with 10S or 12S.<<

Not that simple. The motor you size for 6s may not do well with 10s. You have to figure that first. Unless you don't mind getting another motor.

>> I just would not like to buy things twice and spend the extra on just experimenting.<<

I think most of us do wind up buying things more than once. Especially when there is no perfect information available to all of us.

>> This is my first AP ship I build from the scratch just for AP and I would like to get things close to right the first time. <<

Actually you will be happy with either 6s or 8s unless you plan to haul up some real heavy payload which the Trex 600e is not designed to do.
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Old 11-15-2009, 02:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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ok here is some solid proof and data that you could use. here is a link to a test flight of my 6.8lbs or 3.08kilos camera mount. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEkL1oTtRfM

also here is a elogger graph of the 2:30min flight
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Old 11-15-2009, 04:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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ok here is some solid proof and data that you could use. here is a link to a test flight of my 6.8lbs or 3.08kilos camera mount.
That's great, thanks!

One more question on 600E: Which version would be the best for AP? I know CF and GF are pretty much identical (only difference is the frame material, right?) but how does the ESP compare to those two? ESP has torque tube (which is a plus?) but only two bearing blocks for the main shaft. I have read that three bearing block configuration found CF and GF help reduce the vibrations quite considerably. But then again, installing a third bearing block to an ESP is not too big a task. But is there something extra for AP (in addition to torque tube tail) in the ESP to justify the higher price compared to CF or GF?
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Old 11-15-2009, 01:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i just got an GF frame i really dont see the need for carbon unless your an all out 3d pilot. also i converted to a torque tube on my GF trex600e. nobody said it was going to make a difference but thats . also right from the get go i ordered metal main shaft bearing blocks for the 600 cause i knew someday i would do AP with it. with my camera mount setup like that i have no vibrations on the camera but the heli has a little vibes to it.

Let me know if you have any other questions i could help you with

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Old 11-15-2009, 03:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default what about Align T-rex 600Nitro lift?

I want to use align trex 600 nitro pro for AP.
Do you know how much 600N can lift ?
Can i use 600N for AP ?
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i would not use a nitro for AP. reason for that is because all of the exhaust smoke and oil is going on to your camera and mount. Nitro = Dirty
either go with electric or gas since gas has very very little if any smoke and oil to get on your AP gear
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:50 AM   #16 (permalink)
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i just got an GF frame i really dont see the need for carbon unless your an all out 3d pilot. also i converted to a torque tube on my GF trex600e. nobody said it was going to make a difference but thats . also right from the get go i ordered metal main shaft bearing blocks for the 600 cause i knew someday i would do AP with it. with my camera mount setup like that i have no vibrations on the camera but the heli has a little vibes to it.
So, basically what you're saying is "get an ESP with GF frame"? I talked to a T-Rex dealer about the differencies between ESP and GF/CF. There's seems to be an awful lot of plastic in GF/CF compared to ESP. Even the head is partly plastic! So, I think I will order an ESP and just install third bearing block.

Just to confuse me some more the dealer said he could drop unecessary parts (canopy, ESC, BEC, receiver battery, ... I will get Castle ESC & BEC) out from an CF kit to drop the price even more. I'm just wondering how much would it cost to order all the necessary ESP hop ups to make a CF ESP...? I guess it'll end up costing more (even without the "extra" stuff) than a ESP. Sounds like a stupid plan already!
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Which ever one you get just remember one thing. The Trex 600 frame is relatively narrow. So you have to expect some frame flex. When you get to a point where you cannot get rid of some stubborn skid shakes then you need to address the frame stiffness issue.

I cannot suggest which version to get because when I bought mine there were only one version with the carbon frame. I did get the one with the carbon frame and it is still a bit on the soft wide. If you use an underslung camera mount you will notice a bit of skid shakes that require a lot of playing around with the balance on the entire helicopter.

It can fly very smoothly. It just needs more work to get there.
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Hello,

I have seen your interesting comments on the forum regarding maximum payload vs battery flying time.

just wanted to have your advice for the motor to use on a T-rex 700e with the best battery in order to optimize flying time.

I would really appreciate tips from an expert,

Thx!
/Domidomdom
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