Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Electronics Support > BeastX FBL System


BeastX FBL System BeastX FBL Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2010, 04:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default My tests on the BeastX

I've completed my tests on the BeastX for now, here is my feeling about it.
First of all I would like to tell how I done testing, I flew 8 packs where breaking in with a flight in the middle with my "known" heli (second L600 which is my normal flying machine) as I know the mind adapt very fast it's easy to miss stuff.
My "known" setup is same mechanical setup with different FBL Solution, otherwise identical.
I test one type of move each time, tweaking and trying it again and disregard other things while doing that.
I did try two different mounting tapes, no big difference between them.
I pushed it hard today

[size=large]
UPDATE: My initial review reflected the best I could get with "standard setup", it turned out I couldn't really get it that good without changing hardware (never tested that though), however, in conjunction with a little crude beta program that allowed me to tweak P/I of the Tail and Cyclic I could circumvent the need to change any hardware, and to get it flying good.[/size]


Setup: Very easy but still versatile, will be even more so with a English manual

Spoolup: I suggest slight negative pitch since the heli can start to drift on the ground due to ground vibrations, could throw off any newcomers.

Hovering: I tested from low -> high gain, too low gain and it starts to drift, with good gain it hovers hands off.

Forward flight: Tracks perfectly, total effortless.

Fast forward flight: No problem in FFF, big loops without issue, tracks perfectly through it, Tail wag comes in FFF if your tail gain is too high (see more under tail)

Backward flight (FF and FFF and tailslides): No issues with the tail.

Stationary piros: Perfectly level, no issues.

Rolls/Flips: Rolls and flips nicely, very very slight "going out of track/in track" on flips.

Tictocs: a little wobbly elevator tic tocs (tested with various gains), aileron tic tocs is very nice and perfectly inline

Rainbows: Effortless, sometimes a little wobble on elevator axis, tail struggles a bit at pitch changes.

Tail:
- Tail struggles a bit (compared to what i'm used to) with hard pitch changes it's kicking out.
This is tweak'ble in the system in the future.
- Piro consistency in no-wind and slow movement is OK, piro consistency in higher wind/FFF was not good with "easy setup settings", very much whipping (almost to a point of stop), with additional tweaking of I-gain I could get this to a point of "good" in high wind situations, so it will be fixable.


Cyclic:
- Sportflying:
Cyclic feels good, you tweak the Main gain to get distinct stops.
- Response, Secondary pot gives you adjustment from VERY soft to very distinct control
[/size]

- 3D flight - Updated (with higher I-Gain on the cyclic and tweaked tail for better piro consistency) :

- Piro funnels: No problem performing both with and without reversals.

- Piro in FFF: Stays on Track (piro optimization working)

For the following moves, Depending on your servos you might need to tweak I-Gain for good performance, I had to raise it 15% on mine.

- Piro rainbows: No problem.

- Piro tictocs: Still a bit hard to get nice, perhaps more I-Gain is the answer but mine was OK.

- Piro flips: You need to either learn or tweak your gain to get good flow (much dependent on blades used), but in general no biggie.

- Piro loops: with the improved tail and cyclic, no issues..
Overall, for sportflying or even 3D where there is no piro maneuvers I say its good, but for 3D with piro moves, at least on my machine, I NEEDED to tweak the P/I relationship.

This is my feel, from the information that is known as of today (with updated system), this is a new system, so it might be that as time go by more info will emerge.

I cannot say if this is the "right" system for you, but with above information you at least see my view on it.

/Fredrik
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net

Last edited by MrMel; 04-29-2010 at 05:47 AM..
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-20-2010, 04:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 105
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

Thanx a lot for Your test, MrMel. Was looking forward to it.
As I'm still at beginner state, it would probably be ok for me at present. But might as well wait a bit and see what comes up (updates etc.). How would You judge the performance to be, if it was used with a separate good quality tail gyro (if that's possible)?
HaCKaMaC is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 04:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

The issue with the cyclic is worse, tail I could live with, well, perhaps no not me, but its OK.

I haven't tested the BeastX with separate tail gyro, but during other beta-tests I did I have tested other FBL solutions with external gyro and it works, as long as you setup the main FBL solution correctly (piro optimization) so it controls that part.

If beastx in the future incorporate PreCompensation though, it's a different matter, then you would probably be better off running the BeastX tail again.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 05:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 105
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

Thanx m8...
HaCKaMaC is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 05:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMel View Post

- 3D flight:
I tried really hard to get it good, but I feel that its not possible, this was a disappointment, Flying straight command is no issues at all, even when you push it hard, yes, you do get a litle wobble here and there, but its fairly ok for what you have paid. But as soon as you touch the cyclic while doing any kind of piro moves, things go bad.
Could it be that piro compensation trys to kick in and makes things worse in this case?
__________________
FBL T-Rex 690 'SuperSix' ESP, Microbeast, 12s, Pyro 700-45, 11T Mod. 1/ 1700 HS, Jive 120+HV, Edge 713FBL, Edge 115mm, DS 610s, Logictec LTS6100G, Robbe/Futaba T10CG 2,4GHz

Chuck Norris once shot down a plane by pointing at it and saying "BANG!".

-/thr/- is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 05:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

Quote:
Could it be that piro compensation trys to kick in and makes things worse in this case?
Unknown/hard to judge, slow piro FF keeps the angle, while FFF piro heli goes up and down (still at correct angle though) it might be some combo in the firmware causing it, like "pause piro optimization when cyclic stick is moved" or something like it.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 06:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,724
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Default

Disappointing, I had high expectations on that unit

However, have you seen Nigel Brown's vids (the ones in the snow with a T600LE)?

Elevator tic tocs seemed wobble free and piro flips ok to me. However I'm not a 3D expert...

Could this be you have a bad unit or a setup issue?

Did you try leaving the D/R to the unit?
Parameters menu B to red or flashing blue (3D and expert)
and did you try to play with parameter C?
__________________
Ben
Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251
DX8, RF6
HeliBenj is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 06:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

If I have learned one thing over the years, it's that you cannot ever judge by a video, simply put, if you see an issue in a video, its so severe its no fun at all.
(I done so many tries to get stuff on film on beta-testing stuff, I usually end up with putting the cam in the middle of the field and do it against clear blue sky in the background.)
I have even tried some vicked wrong setup's where the owner of the heli stands next to me and say "Oh it feels good, doesn't it", and I just have to laugh and tweak it and let him try a "good" setup, always get a big smile in return from those sessions.

A bad unit, if it was bad It wouldnt fly as good as it does, simply put, it flies as expected when leaving out piro commands (except tail which was sub-par)

I tried Sport, Pro, Extreme on the B Parameter, but I didnt like it really, so I ended up with "Radio" and use 33% Cyclic and 44% tail expo

I tried Medium and High C-Parameter but left it at medium since that felt best in FFF

D - Parameter (tail) has to be on Very high to get as good tail as I could get.

As I understand it they come out with a update within 10 days or so already, so it might be that there is fixes already, time will tell.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 09:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2006
Default

Dear Mr. Mel,

The issues you found are because setup of the system is done wrong, this might be a matter of the not yet existing english manual. The Setup is very easy if you do exactly whats written in the step by step manual but there are some very critical points during the setup process and if done wrong might have great effects on the performance.

Here in Germany the Microbeast withstands lots of comparions to other german systems with heads up

So before you write such comments you have to be sure it's not a matter of a wrong setup or even your own fault.

You are welcom to get in contact with me (drop me a message i will call back) to help you setting up the system right, so that you can see that it's one of the best performing system on the market so far.

regards,
Walter
labmaster is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 09:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

Quote:
The issues you found are because setup of the system is done wrong, this might be a matter of the not yet existing english manual. The Setup is very easy if you do exactly whats written in the step by step manual but there are some very critical points during the setup process and if done wrong might have great effects on the performance.
Ok, interesting..

I have followed the setup correctly I think, of course I can check it over when the english manual comes out, but;

a) Flybarless
b) Flat
c) 200hz
d) 760
e) 333hz
f) max limit on tail
g) correct, dont remember which
h) very little needed
I) 120 degree (dont remember reversing switches but correct for the movement)
J) exactly 6 degree using digital pitch gauge.
K) +-13.5 which I'm flying with normally.
L) max limit without binding.
M) dont remember which one but correctly I can assure you.
N) also correct.

Parameters:
A) - Trim, little to get it perfect
B) - Radio (tried Sport, pro extreme but liked my own better)
C) - Medium, tried High but stayed with medium
D) - Very high to get as best performance on the tail (started with Medium and then high to end with very high)
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 10:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

I should add exact setup of the heli

Logo 600, Mikado FBL head
Xera 4035-560, Jive 80HV, 10s
3 x BLS451
1 x BLS251

SAB Red Devils main blades, 600mm
95mm Edge Tailblades using RJX hub (a little wider than stock, about same as running 100mm on stock hub)

2200-2250 HS.

Cyclic rate about 360 degree in 1.8 seconds.
Tailgain is at Blue + L or M (141% on ATV on Spektrum radio)
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 11:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

Quote:
So before you write such comments you have to be sure it's not a matter of a wrong setup or even your own fault.
That's why I re-did the setup yesterday night, to make absolutely sure.
If you can find something wrong in my setup, please enlighten me and I will make corrections, until that, I stand by my tests.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 12:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 728
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Default

Guys remember Mr.Mel isnt just a standard user when it comes to FBL. He knows his ****!!

I dont think he would post anything unless he has done his best to trouble shoot his setup or own issues.

I just want to know when he is going to give the sk-720 a test?

blade strike is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 12:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

Quote:
I just want to know when he is going to give the sk-720 a test?
Yup, I will, really like the idea of the "black box" recording, almost like you need to crash it to fully test it though


I will talk to Freakware by phone tomorrow and see if they can find anything that I have missed, or at least, if I encountered something unexpected, chances are that many will follow, meaning an update or even an update of the manual could be enough.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 01:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Default

Hello M. Mel,
I also fly a MB (a little bit longer than the most users) and especially the tail is better than every gyro I have tried the last 25 years.

Im sure, you have checked your bearings and the tail slider. I have to oil the tail slider every 10 flights at my Logo 500.

Im very curios, whats the cause for inconsistent rotate rate and I agree to you, that with an inconsistent tail its not a fun to fly pirouetting figures.

Albert
Albert is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 01:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

I flew this machine a few hours before the test started with another solution on it, 100% perfect.

It's not that it dont hold ( I did roughly 150 meter tailslides today, and FFF backward hurricanes without a hitch) its about kicking out in hard moves, but I'm picky about that, as I have a super-tail normally.

Also, any bindings and I would have got wag.

Strange is my gain though, Blue + L or M + parameter D at max, Meaning almost maxxed out, using BLS251 servo, I saw however on a german forum other that had to go that high too.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 01:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 207
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade strike View Post
Guys remember Mr.Mel isnt just a standard user when it comes to FBL. He knows his ****!!
I dont think he would post anything unless he has done his best to trouble shoot his setup or own issues.
yes that is what it makes the whole thing so weird. MrMel is a reference to me as logo600 enthusiast. It is the only negative feedback from the plenty I've been reading and is absolutely not correlating my own MB experience (protos and rex450pro) which both gave me the best tail ever and absolutly stable cyclic in all flight configurations. my first flight is here [ame]http://www.vimeo.com/11072767[/ame] no tunning needed at all except tail gain fro 70 to 100%. As soon as I get my second one, i'll try it on the logo instead of the AC3X.

regards

Marcel
mguw is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 01:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

@Marcel, have you tried piro moves (if you are at that level) like piro funnels, piro rainbows etc, as I stated in my post, the cyclic was OK until I added cyclic in combination to piro, and even in piro flips I _can_ control it, just not nearly as good as otherwise since I do get unwanted movement, same with piro funnels, they just look very ugly as the disc wobbles, the more cyclic that was needed (Piro tictocs or piro rainbow) it became increasingly hard, piro loop and it almost went total bad.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 207
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Default

no, unfortunately, i am not at that level, but a friend of mine is running it on a T700N and did very fast pirofunnels, chaos with reversals and stuff like that and he is happy with it.

wouldnt you recheck the pirocomp direction, may be programming went wrong?
To see what is actually programmed, you can check it in flight mode by pushing the elevator to tilt the swashplate forward then rotating quickly the heli by 90 to the right. Doing this should tilt the swash slightly to the left for a second or 2. I am sorry to insist on this, but your symptoms are really like a bad compensation direction.

cheers

Marcel
mguw is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 01:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13,576
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

Tested including in normal mode + transmitter stick, all OK it keep attitude as it should.

(I have flown other system with Piro opt off and reversed just to know the difference infight, so I do know exactly how it acts, and this is not it.)

Piro FF works wonder on this unit, straight as an arrow.
__________________
Gone fishing.. or hunting or something..
http://heli.dacsa.net
MrMel is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1