Modifying 3G for better performance - HeliFreak
Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Electronics Support > Align 3G FBL System


Align 3G FBL System Align 3G FBL Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2010, 01:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 514
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ...
Default Modifying 3G for better performance

Hi,

I have been testing a mod to the 3G, that will help some of those that are having issues with the system. I've been flying it for a while now to test and confirm my findings before making any comments. I have forwarded my findings to Assurance and Taiwan. Not everyone is having issues or concerns as evidenced by so many of the factory pilots, and local pilots I speak to are not having any issues. I was not having any issues, but wanted to go the extra step to make things even better, continual developement. I find that most of the issues are vibration induced as the sensors are very sensitive.

If you want to try this mod, do it at your own risk, as it may void any warranty, I don't know.

The mod involves taking the sensor appart by the 4 screws on the bottom. Lift the top off of the base and carefully remove the the sensors from the top of case. Use some silicone, I used high temp silicone, as it was the only kind I have, I have just been told to use electronics silicone as it is non corrosive, and apply a gob to secure all 3 sensor units to each other. Do not put too much on. You do not want the glue to touch too much of the sensor case, this way the case transmits less vibration to the sensors. I did not put any silicone between the bottom of the rudder sensor and the square plastic base of case.

You should find that the heli is much less "nervous", less tail artifacts, you will be able to turn all your gains up,

Your heli will be much more solid.

You must minimize vibrations, and use FBL blades.

You will note from my settings below, the gains are about 100% now, and rudder is at 85-90%







[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHumotQFwKI[/ame]


Leon Luke
__________________
Representing: Team A Main , Mikado V-Team, Team Xpert, Team Synergy, Team KDE, Team Cool Power, Team Hatori, Team Protek, Eco Power Lipos, TruGlow,

XFC 2006/7/8/11

Last edited by Leon Luke; 10-12-2010 at 12:49 AM.. Reason: added video
Leon Luke is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-11-2010, 07:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Antonio tx.
Default

No faster said than done.
jondabear is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2010, 08:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Default

Can we see pictures of a modified sensor to understand better?
mikejr718 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2010, 09:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 514
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ...
Default

I should know better, but I did not take pictures, sorry. I have it on 5 machines.
__________________
Representing: Team A Main , Mikado V-Team, Team Xpert, Team Synergy, Team KDE, Team Cool Power, Team Hatori, Team Protek, Eco Power Lipos, TruGlow,

XFC 2006/7/8/11
Leon Luke is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2010, 09:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Default

I have seen pics of the inside of the 3g sensor from another thread. I have tried to attach a copy of the pic. Thanks to tgilton for the original pic. I have outlined an area that I believe you are referring to. [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Owner/Desktop/3G_PINS2.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/Owner/Desktop/3G_PINS2.jpg[/IMG]
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3G_PINS2.jpg
Views:	7380
Size:	62.7 KB
ID:	184504  
mikejr718 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2010, 10:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 514
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejr718 View Post
I have seen pics of the inside of the 3g sensor from another thread. I have tried to attach a copy of the pic. Thanks to tgilton for the original pic. I have outlined an area that I believe you are referring to. [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Owner/Desktop/3G_PINS2.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/Owner/Desktop/3G_PINS2.jpg[/IMG]
I put a glob of silicone, and shaped it like a cube to touch all 3 sensors, the dimensions of this cube of silicone was a little larger than the dimensions of the actual sensors on the 3 boards. The glue encapsulated the sensors and parts of the boards. I just made sure that I did not put so much that the glue would squeeze out when I put the top of the case on. I am sure the glue contacted the 2 locating tabs on the top of the case.
__________________
Representing: Team A Main , Mikado V-Team, Team Xpert, Team Synergy, Team KDE, Team Cool Power, Team Hatori, Team Protek, Eco Power Lipos, TruGlow,

XFC 2006/7/8/11
Leon Luke is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2010, 10:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Default

I am going to try this tomorrow. I have Hondabond hi temp silicone sealer and also some shoo goo. Would either of these be ok?
mikejr718 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 12:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,010
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Default

Silicone sealants/glue normally produce an accidic reaction and are corrosive to the electronic tracks and copper components. Better to use some specialised silicon glue that are made for electronic use.

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/...ronic_app.html
Quote:
TSE399-C Clear, one part, neutral cure, non-corrosive, flowable, RTV silicone sealant for electronics applications with primerless adhesion to most metals and plastics.
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/et.../etronicsseal/
__________________
Gaui R5, Henseleit TDR +TDR2, Banshee
Kontronik ESC, iChargers, VBar, VControl, JR XG11
Old hand at Planks
Vinger is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 12:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 514
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ...
Default 3G

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
Silicone sealants/glue normally produce an accidic reaction and are corrosive to the electronic tracks and copper components. Better to use some specialised silicon glue that are made for electronic use.

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/...ronic_app.html


http://www.dowcorning.com/content/et.../etronicsseal/
Good to know.
__________________
Representing: Team A Main , Mikado V-Team, Team Xpert, Team Synergy, Team KDE, Team Cool Power, Team Hatori, Team Protek, Eco Power Lipos, TruGlow,

XFC 2006/7/8/11
Leon Luke is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 02:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Antonio tx.
Default

I completely forgot all about that. Wow....now there's a blast from the past. Noncorrosive rtv's for base level board work and adhesion. Haven't had to use that in a very long time.

I DO concur though. Noncorrosive would be preferable. Not a must. As the actual corrosive effects would probably show themselves AFTER this tech is obsolete but, I rather have pice of mind. To ELECTROTEX I go! Peace!
jondabear is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 08:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

Not sure about the cover from your 3G unit Leon but mine had 2 little tabs inside that had to be removed in order to allow the silicone to connect all 3 sensors together. The tabs appeared that they are/were some kind of support for the 2 upright sensors?
__________________

Wizzard is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 09:31 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 514
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ...
Default

Yes, the tabs were in mine too.
__________________
Representing: Team A Main , Mikado V-Team, Team Xpert, Team Synergy, Team KDE, Team Cool Power, Team Hatori, Team Protek, Eco Power Lipos, TruGlow,

XFC 2006/7/8/11
Leon Luke is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 10:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Italy
Default

Hello Leon great work! Can you post also some pics of the software parameters you have used in your 450 flybarless?

i'm asking this because a friend has the 3G on a 450PRO and we want to try your "silicone" mod but we don't know how to fine tune the parameters.

thanks
__________________
Compass 7HVU - SAB Goblin 700 - Logo 550SE - All with Vcontrol
uragano47812 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 10:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,853
 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default

What about using hot melt glue? Too hot? Too runny? Too stiff when hard?

Just an idea..as it's non-corrosive..
__________________
DX7 Mode-1 | 450 pro 6s | 450 pro | Schweizer 300C Gasser Scale | T-Rex550e | Aeolus 50 | HeliX T-Rex700 fbl Gasser | HWC600 Gasser | Henseleit MPXLe | Henseleit 3DNT | Suzi-Janis 700 | Gaui NX4 | Gaui X5 | Blade 350QX
jockstrap is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 11:04 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 819
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Default

What about shoo goo?
ForceFedDSM is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 12:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,566
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Acworth, GA
Default

I'm getting 90 gain on aileron and 85 gain on elevator on my 600n without this mod. I also set my tail up using 100% 100% on the gain channel and setting my rudder total adjustment to 34% in the software. My 3g is working great. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
Felt is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 12:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,566
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Acworth, GA
Default

I also forgot to mention. I am using Edge 603 Flybarless blades.
Felt is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 08:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,124
 

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ontario California
Default

I did this mod last night to my 450. I would say it made some improvement. The tail felt better as well. Zero wag. I also took Leon's advice and turn up my swash return speed to 70 and the heli felt a lot better. It felt more locked in. I was previously running it at 30.

BTW I used shoe goo. It's harder than silicone. Personally I don't see an issue with silicone, in 3 yrs from now, we'll all be running a different system.
mickeyjohnston is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 11:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 318
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Default

I think this is a dandy idea! It basically increases the mass of each of the three sensors and eliminates some of the vibrational modes by coupling them into a new shape. I don't like the way they cantilever the little boards out there to vibrate like saxophone reeds. I will be doing a version of this tomorrow using sticky clay instead of RTV.
__________________
eXo 500, Goblin 380, Oxy3
tgilton is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2010, 11:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,162
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Wisconsin - USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgilton View Post
I think this is a dandy idea! It basically increases the mass of each of the three sensors and eliminates some of the vibrational modes by coupling them into a new shape. I don't like the way they cantilever the little boards out there to vibrate like saxophone reeds. I will be doing a version of this tomorrow using sticky clay instead of RTV.
Please take pics or video of your mod. I am curious to see how your version goes..
__________________
AnythingHeli.com OWNER/ TEAM PILOT
GAUI X5 / X7 *
GOBLIN 280/380/500-x2/630/770 * Swinging SWITCH/RJX/RAIL & SAB Blades * Microbeast/IKON * Castle ESC's on all * DX18 *
akamullen is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1