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Thunder Tiger Electric Helis Mini Titan E325, Raptor E550 and E620 SE Helicopters


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Old 11-27-2010, 08:46 AM   #61 (permalink)
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I found some 1/8" thick plastic and made some spacers from it only to find the servos now bind with the frame before I get the screws tightened. The one on the left side (where the notch in the frame is along with the angled cutout) is worse than the one on the right side.

It appears that the Corona DS919MGs will not fit correctly as the two side cyclics. The bottom-of-servo to bottom-of-mounting-flange is like 19.5mm - the Hitec's are closer to 17mm.

Looks like I may be looking for different servos too ... With the 1/8" plastic spacers the push rods were more vertical, but still not quite straight up and down.

It was driving me crazy - I kept looking at the pics you guys posted to check my work but something was just not jiving - at least I know now.

Crap

-John
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:27 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Nice job with the spacers John.

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Originally Posted by thehatguy View Post
I'm finishing up my servo install too.

What I used to make the spacers for my HS65HB's, after widening the servo mounts, is 1/8" wide aluminum.

Takes a bit of filing to give it that custom look, but they provide a very secure mount. Once I mount the servo arms I think it will line up nicely.

John

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Old 11-28-2010, 07:57 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Thanks for the comments regarding the spacers.

Now to get some power to this bird so I can get the servos set up.

3D Dave, you still owe me a call.

John
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:12 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Yea, I know. I don't wear those hats in the winter however so the custom hat is low priority. I guarantee I will be in touch though.

Maybe I should do a custom ski cap

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Thanks for the comments regarding the spacers.

Now to get some power to this bird so I can get the servos set up.

3D Dave, you still owe me a call.

John
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:47 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I acquired some HS-55s (the budget at work) for the cyclics. Tried the 1/8" thick spacers and all 3 pushrods were still crooked. And the bottoms of the servos were ever-so-slightly still binding with the frame causing the mounting wings of the servos to bend slightly when the screws were tightened. I didn't like that. I re-installed those 3/16" PCB spacers and things just seem to be better - servos don't hit the frame and the rods are much closer to being vertical. And the servos are mounted sturdy - no rocking back and forth like I saw with the Coronas. One thing though - the included "robust" arms only have holes at like 10mm and 14mm - no 12.5mm as per the instructions. I don't think I can reliably make a hole in between so I'll see how the 14mm works out initially. Also included were some really flimsy ones with holes right where they need to be, but I want those arms to be as strong as possible.

In addition, I really like how the motor mount has been engineered. Adjusting gear mesh is 10x better than on the Blade 400. I'm going to have to mount my 3.0mm dia. pinion (size of the motor's shaft) further towards the end of the shaft such that I can't utilize the flat spot in order to meet the 16mm requirement in the instructions as it's shorter than the included MT pinions. The included MT pinions are 3.17mm dia. so they'll do the cam-lobe thing if I use them with this 3.0mm motor. I may dremel another flat spot or use some adhesive (with no flat spot) like on the Scorpions.

Still waiting for an ESC/BEC and receiver ...

-John
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:26 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I'm running HS-65mgs, and they mounted just fine with no spacers. The back of the servo does contact the frame, but not terribly so.

It looks like the spacers you've used help to bring the links forward enough to straighten up the linkage to the swash- my problem is that my servo puts the linkage too far forward on the left side, so the link has to be angled toward the back of the bird on its way to the swash. I haven't really found any way to correct this. This hasn't caused any interactions that I'm aware of, and everything seems to work just fine otherwise. It just bugs me.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:36 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Makes me wonder about the ACE servos that come with some versions of the kit. How well do they fit? Do they clear the frame and allow the pushrods to be more-or-less vertical? Their specs are a little better than my HS-55s - they just seem a little hard to find these days.

It would be nice if a few dimensions other than LxWxH were posted when comparing servos. I'm noticing that the "mounting wing to servo bottom" and "very top of final gear stub to servo bottom" dimensions are the ones that end up being very different and cause a lot of headaches - especially when the other dimensions match up.

I really wanted to get the 65HBs but they'll have to wait unfortunately ...

-John
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Old 12-05-2010, 04:14 AM   #68 (permalink)
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The ACE servos are a perfect fit as the frame was designed around them. As you say they're a little hard to find these days, certainly here in the UK, and they strip gears if you even look at them in a bad way. Gear sets aren't easy to find either. I gave up on those and just ordered a few HXT900s for cyclic on my Mini Titan with a view to upgrading to Henge MD933 digitals in the near future. HXT900s are just so cheap and perform well. I have them in my Trex250. I expect some frame pruning to get the HXTs to fit. I know what you mean about sizing up servos, it's a bit of a lottery when you can't get hold of proper dimensions. Hobby King are pretty good at providing a multitude of measurements for servos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FR4-Pilot View Post
Makes me wonder about the ACE servos that come with some versions of the kit. How well do they fit? Do they clear the frame and allow the pushrods to be more-or-less vertical? Their specs are a little better than my HS-55s - they just seem a little hard to find these days.

It would be nice if a few dimensions other than LxWxH were posted when comparing servos. I'm noticing that the "mounting wing to servo bottom" and "very top of final gear stub to servo bottom" dimensions are the ones that end up being very different and cause a lot of headaches - especially when the other dimensions match up.

I really wanted to get the 65HBs but they'll have to wait unfortunately ...

-John
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Old 12-05-2010, 10:27 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipbutty View Post
Hobby King are pretty good at providing a multitude of measurements for servos.
Yes - it was Hobby King that helped me troubleshoot via their "Product Config Table". Their "A" and "F" dimensions (at least on their HS65HBs) turned out to be the helpful ones ... (along with my calipers here).

But even their Product Config Table dimensions don't match up exactly with the dimensions provided in the Specifications text directly above the table. I guess it's an eye-opener as to what you're in for when servo shopping

-John
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Old 12-05-2010, 10:53 AM   #70 (permalink)
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HiTec's site provides a nice measurement diagram for all their servos. http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/ana...i/hs-65hb.html
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:33 PM   #71 (permalink)
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As I mentioned, I'm going with not-so-impressive separates on this first build. 3 reasons: 1) Funds are low right now, 2) I have a bunch of stuff left over from Blade 400 experimentation, and 3) I want to see just how good/bad these less expensive components actually perform based on my flying capability (no hard-core-3D I'm afraid).

I have everything except the ESC/BEC - will order one soon ...

$115 MTE325 -K10 Kit
$50 Hobbywing Platinum 40A ESC w/3A Switching BEC
$15 HobbyKing 6CH DSM2 Receiver
$12 Alpha 400 Exceed RC 3500kV
$30 Hitec HS-55 cyclic servos (x3)
$12 Corona DS-919MG tail servo
$0 E-Flite G110 Gyro (from Blade 400)
$13 Align 325 Pro Woodies (optional)
================
$247.00

Don't have to buy new batteries, charger or Tx (DX6i) since they can be shared with the Blade 400.

Anyway, we'll see how this goes. I've been told the servos are a little weak for a heli this size and I already know how the gyro will probably perform, although I haven't tried it with that Corona servo yet. I've read great reviews on the $15 6CH HobbyKing receiver too and a fellow pilot over in the UK has been running the Hobbywing ESC hard on his Blade 400 with great results. I ran the $12 motor on my Blade 400 for a dozen or so flights and it worked great. Who knows - maybe "budget" can work ...

-John
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Old 12-23-2010, 07:17 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Going to attempt to modify a clear plastic box to put the HobbyKing DSM2 receiver in, since it comes as a naked circuit board. It at least needs a little protection from fingers & static getting to those components. The pins too, but they'll soon have servo, etc. connectors covering them up.

Got some clear plastic storage boxes from the craft store - they're a little larger than I would like but I think it will work well if I mount the receiver on the outside on that little shelf.

Anyway, some whittling with a file, hacksaw and an x-acto knife plus two pieces of adhesive foam tape - we'll see how it goes. Should have no problem seeing those LEDs ...

-John
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:37 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Have you got it in the air yet?
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:52 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Negative. Wasted a month with HobbyPartz on an ESC that I never received. Ordered one a few days ago from a local supplier so it should be here today/tomorrow. Then it's setup time ... getting anxious as I'm off work this week.

I was going to put the G110 gyro (which stands tall) inside that cavity in the back, except 1) I'll have to remove it if the tail section is pulled out as it will hit the gear as is slides out, and 2) That area will be crammed with servo wires which undoubtedly will touch the sides of the gyro. The only open area is up on top where it's vulnerable to flybar strikes. I guess I'll slide it up toward that servo as far as I can. I saw a pic where someone actually mounted the gyro on top of the servo - not sure if that's a good idea or not ... ? Regardless, another reason to justify a better low-profile gyro in the near future

-John
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:54 PM   #75 (permalink)
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hey john,
just call me a copykat, lol
I just got one too, have to get all the electronics for it, and was thinking about using everything from the 400 too, as I have alot of extra parts also.
I'll keep reading and see how you do with yours for now, might be awhile before I get mine going,($$$) would be nice to have something that fly's better than the 400.
I'm gonna take your advice and get the h.w. esc, do you have to program it?
thats gonna be something new for me if I do.also I'm not gonna use the stock gyro off the 400, I never did like it, think I'll get another 401. good luck
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:06 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Hey Rich - We can be guinea pigs together then Good luck on yours - I'll keep my fingers crossed for us both.

Yea, I'm not crazy about the G110 but it will have to do for now ($$$).

The HobbyWing ESC/BEC is programmable, either by using your transmitter sticks or with the use of an $8 programming card, which I also got. I ended up using ValueHobby.com for the ESC and card - ordered it Sunday afternoon and it was here Tuesday (I'm only a dozen or so miles from their warehouse).

First signs of life! Received the ESC/BEC and soldered an XT60 on it. Bound a clean model memory on the DX6i to both of my HobbyKing DSM2 receivers and they appear to work just fine (on the bench that is). In addition to that little clear box I also wrapped one receiver in orange electrical tape (don't have any large diameter shrink tube) and discovered both the orange and red LEDs are able to be seen through the tape (I was concerned the tape would mask them - probably would want to opt for clear shrink tubing then).

Man! Those Hitec servo connectors are awfully tight on the receiver pins! I don't see a good way of removing the connectors once the receiver is mounted to the heli - I had to contort my hands, fingers and receiver in all different orientations to unplug them without damaging the little wires ....

I do like the fact that these receivers (new 6100e clones?) have extra gaps in between the connectors. I don't like how crammed in my old 6100e forces the connectors to be - the outer ones actually bend out from all of the force of the others - not these little guys!

So now the real fun begins - I'm going to use the swash leveling tool from the Blade 400 as well ...

-John
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:43 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FR4-Pilot View Post
Negative. Wasted a month with HobbyPartz on an ESC that I never received. Ordered one a few days ago from a local supplier so it should be here today/tomorrow. Then it's setup time ... getting anxious as I'm off work this week.

I was going to put the G110 gyro (which stands tall) inside that cavity in the back, except 1) I'll have to remove it if the tail section is pulled out as it will hit the gear as is slides out, and 2) That area will be crammed with servo wires which undoubtedly will touch the sides of the gyro. The only open area is up on top where it's vulnerable to flybar strikes. I guess I'll slide it up toward that servo as far as I can. I saw a pic where someone actually mounted the gyro on top of the servo - not sure if that's a good idea or not ... ? Regardless, another reason to justify a better low-profile gyro in the near future

-John
I just mounted my GY520 on top. Need the space below to hide all the wires.

Just have to hope it will be safe there.

John

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Old 12-30-2010, 05:47 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I just mounted my GY520 on top. Need the space below to hide all the wires.

Just have to hope it will be safe there
Generally, the best practice regarding MT is not to mount anything on top, especially with flybar. It gets whacked with flybar in some bad crashes. First time my Gy401 was detached (luckily, only gyro pad's foam got split) I mounted it inside.

BTW, now, without FB, I have microbeast on top again - thinking that without flybar there isn't much that can reach that place in crashes. We'll see...
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:21 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Thanks guys - that's some great info to keep in mind. If all goes well my flybar will never get a chance to meet Mr.Gyro ... Speaking of, I was looking at how things sit back there and the paddle would have to strike the boom before the flybar itself can physically touch the gyro. If that happens I'm probably already having a bad day for obvious reasons ...

Today I got all of the separates mounted and gave her a test spool up on the bench. I must say this heli is extremely smooth and quiet as compared to the Blade 400. Probably because the frame is open - there are no enclosed hollow cavities to resonate (?) I had to tweak a few settings in the radio to get servo and swash directions right but so far everything seems to be happy. The gyro creeps a bit in HH mode, but it did this before so I'm not surprised.

I did have a mysterious twitching of all servos earlier in the installation. Finally I noticed that when I moved the rudder stick (thus tail servo) the cyclics would jump around a bit - very uncool. I removed the tail servo (Corona DS919-MG) and installed my 4th Hitec-HS55 back there and the twitching disappeared. I read somewhere that the Corona's were a bit twitchy, but causing otherwise quiet servos to be twitchy is something I'm not cool with. They're obviously contaminating the radio system which is just terrible.

One thing I really liked was being able to remove the battery tray/holder and "open up the hood" to work on the motor and ESC wiring. This is really great - no more clumsily manipulating two pairs of needle nose pliers in tiny quarters to connect/disconnect the motor wires from the ESC as on the Blade 400.

At this point I need to:
  • Setup head, level swash, set blade pitch, tracking, balance blades. Modify the B400 foam blade holder with an extra slot about 3/4" under the bottom slot to hold the MT paddles level during blade pitch adjustments (helps holds the flybar 90-ish to the main shaft). Done.
  • Setup ESC/BEC via programming card, max/min throttle range, slow start, etc. Done.
  • Dremel/file a flat spot on the motor's shaft for the pinion's setscrew to correctly locate the pinion at the main gear. Threadlock the motor mounts. Done.
  • Go back and add some threadlocker to a few places I left unlocked in case I had to disassemble something during this phase. Done.
  • Tweak the tail linkage, belt tightness and mess with the gyro & servo. - Done.
  • Adjust all radio settings accordingly (dual rates/expo, swash mix, throttle/pitch curves, piro rate, timer, output power level, etc.). ... On Going ...
  • Finish putting the colored stripes on the other side of the canopy. Done.
  • Velcro the battery mount. Done.
  • Range check HK receiver.
  • Maiden test flight/hover. Done.
Another pleasant surprise was with the HS-55 servos. I was able to pair up servos with servo arms and got them all at 90 in their neutral positions without any trim or subtrim

That's enough for today - wife just notified me I've been working on this for 7 hours today ...

-John
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:36 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Looks good John.

If all goes well, you should be able to get your feet wet with that setup. In time, you will want to replace the:

- Gyro (Futaba 401 or Spartan)
- Tail servo (9257)

Keep an eye on that HK Spektrum compatible RX. I seem to recall hearing both good and bad so I can't really say how well you'll fare.

I'd also replace the rubber bands (especially on the battery) with velcro straps.

Good luck on the maiden.
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