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Old 02-27-2011, 10:29 PM   #41 (permalink)
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We used the Castle ICE logger (after inputting the gear ratio) and an Android app. Both were consistent. I agree, it does seem to suggest a pitch problem. I wasn't planning to fly today which is why I didn't check it in advance.

I'll measure the pitch, and also have a look at the ESC motor timings as well as the VBar collective response to see if anything is set wrong. I think I did use some very mild scale settings in the VBar which could make it feel sluggish.

Daniel
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:14 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Good work Daniel. You will get it worked out very soon. That is one thing I learned from one of my buddies that flys nothing but scale ships. Get all the mechanics worked out in a pod-boom setup before going into a body. Just because the pod-boom flight was successful doesn't mean you won't have problems once its inside a fuse. Scales are great and require lots of patients. But once you get them going it is an achievement.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:39 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default CNC Tail Grips

Tonight I installed the Century CNC tail grips. They are fine although the design is strange. The hub ends in threaded rods, and you have to put a nut inside each grip to snug it on. It works but is not as convenient as running a bolt through the grip into the hub.

One thing to note is that I had to change from trailing edge to lead edge control to line up with the balls correctly. I immediately fired up the VBar software to flip the tail servo direction before I forgot about it. Hopefully once I replace the Hyperion tail servo with a Futaba 9254 the tail will be sorted out.

Daniel
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:09 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I noticed you target 1700-1800 rpm HS. My JetRanger using 550mm blades requires only 1500 rpm with plenty to spare, but the AUW is only 2.9 kg or less than 6.5 lbs.

Swift NX plastic tail case is narrow without the taps on the side.

While my extended Swift 16 using 600mm blades is below 1500rpm with BeastX mounted.
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:50 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Thanks Sidney. I'm open to lower headspeeds. We'll have to see how it flies. I imagine it will be at least 8 pounds and could be as much as 10 with retracts, lights, etc.
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:50 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Tonight I installed the Century CNC tail grips. They are fine although the design is strange. The hub ends in threaded rods, and you have to put a nut inside each grip to snug it on. It works but is not as convenient as running a bolt through the grip into the hub.
Daniel
Maybe not as convenient but much more secure.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:15 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Can anyone recommend servos for the Century retracts that are designed for the 50 size fuselages?
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:47 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Any standard type of servos will do. You do not need anything special.

There are a number of different ways to do so. Some have used a three mini servos set-up, with one per landing gear.

Some have used two. A standard sized one for the two main retracts and one mini for the front one

You can use one standard one for all three but the mechanical part of it can become a bit more fiddly then some might be comfortable with.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:33 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Thanks. I was thinking three servos on separate channels so I can set the endpoints individually. So I guess minis is the way to go. Are metal gear better to absorb the impact of landing? What about analog vs. digital? Analog servos usually draw less current when stalled which could be an advantage if things get jammed up.
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Old 03-19-2011, 03:26 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Maybe I should be posting this in a different thread, but since this is related, I'm also curious how it would work. I have a DX8 with 8 channel receiver and a full size vbar. I'm not sure if I will even need to use the 8 channel receiver with the full size vbar since it looks like the full size vbar has 10 inputs from the picture on readyheli.com. Will I have enough channels to use a separate servo for each retract? Is it possible to put 3 retract servos on the same channel? I'm also going to be using a Hercules Super BEC if that makes any difference.

on Full Size V-Bar:
1 - Throttle
2 - Aileron
3 - Elevator
4 - Rudder
5 - Retract 1
6 - Retract 2 ???
7 - Retract 3 ???
8 - BEC 1
9 - BEC 2
10 - [not used]

Can I get by without using my 8 channel receiver? What am I missing?

Tommy
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:50 PM   #51 (permalink)
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It's a bit off-topic, but I'm happy to help. As a Futaba guy I would run the retract servos connected to the receiver directly, in addition to the ESC. So only four cables go between the receiver and VBar: aileron, elevator, pitch, and rudder. Then the VBar connects to the four servos. If you run an external BEC or receiver pack it can connect to the VBar on empty ports. I don't know what the wiring would be like if using satellite receivers with Spektrum gear.

Daniel
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:30 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Retract servos

After doing some research, mini servos appear to be the best choice. I decided to go with these analog, plastic gear Hitecs:

http://www.servodatabase.com/servo/hitec/hs-225bb

Tower Hobbies sells a three pack of them for $52. By putting each servo on its own channel, I'll be able to set the end points individually in the radio, and hopefully setup should be a breeze.

Daniel
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:06 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Default Retracts

I've been working on the retracts and overall they are going well. A few notes:
  • The one-page instructions don't mention loctite, but you definitely want to use it on the wheel collar set screw, the set screw which holds the gear wire into the retracts mechanism, and the screw which supports the bellcrank post.
  • Both the fuselage and the optional retract kit come with wheels. Strange.
  • The self-tapping screws which come with the retracts are the wrong size. Use the machine screws that came with the fuselage.
  • The trays are designed for mini servos and just needed a little filing to fit the Hitec HS-225s, plus drilling for the mounting screws.
  • I had to sand the wheel openings in the fuselage for the rear gear so that the wheel collars wouldn't hit or rub the edge.
  • The white plastic ball link ends Century provides are a pain. They can't be installed and removed easily like normal links you find on the swash. In fact I broke one of the bellcranks trying to put these back on. Grr.
Other than the broken bellcrank I had the three landing gear moving via a knob and was just about to set the endpoints. Very exciting to see this start working.

Daniel
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Old 04-22-2011, 01:11 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Looks like your project is nearing completion in time for some good summer fun.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:46 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Thanks. The truth is this is just the beginning. The hard work is going to be mounting the mechanics, which will require a custom box or similar. In the mean time I ordered replacement bellcranks, $26 with shipping for three pieces of plastic. Ouch.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:23 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswitkin View Post
Thanks. The truth is this is just the beginning. The hard work is going to be mounting the mechanics, which will require a custom box or similar. In the mean time I ordered replacement bellcranks, $26 with shipping for three pieces of plastic. Ouch.
I know what you mean. It would be nice if shipping companies did not have a minimum
charge so that our small orders would not cost so much relative to the total.

If only USPS, UPS, Fedex etc would only charge a percentage of the value of whatever it is they are shipping Unfortunately I don't think we will ever see that day.
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Old 04-23-2011, 02:44 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Well, while I wait for those parts I made a temporary solution so I could finish the setup. I epoxied the bellcrank back together with a short metal rod on top and bottom for strength. I won't fly with it but it was enough to get all the directions and end points set, including servo slow down in the transmitter. Looks really cool.

I think I'm going to skip the machine guns since they would make the heli much more fragile to transport, and significantly wider. Sadly the side panels aren't flush if attached directly.

One thing I had never thought about was the top piece. Because it's designed for nitro, you have to remove the blades, grips, and maybe everything on the main shaft to get the top off. I'm not sure what to do about changing LiPo packs. Any suggestions?

Daniel
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:36 PM   #58 (permalink)
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The retracts are now done. I put the new bellcrank in and used an AFR so that the three position gear switch acts like a two position. In other words, both the middle and top positions put the gear fully up. Lastly, I used a single AFR (rather than a group one) so that activating throttle hold puts the gear down, regardless of the position of the gear switch. This is done with a flat AFR curve of -100%. The 12FG even lets you set the speed per AFR, so when I hit throttle hold the gear pop down almost instantly, compared to the slowed down effect for the gear switch. Sweet!

As for the top, I've learned from other threads that there's probably enough room to open it at an angle to get a 6s5000 pack in and out without taking the head off. It's going to be a tight squeeze though. The other option is to cut the top into front and back pieces but obviously I'd prefer not to do that.

And finally, I test flew the mechanics and the 9254 held the tail perfectly, so the problem was the Hyperion tail servo. I think the ESC settings are not perfect as it still seemed to bog, so I'll try governor mode next time.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:38 AM   #59 (permalink)
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if I had read this thread earlier I could have saved you some money. If you go to your LHS you can look for Ball End links for the the Blade 400. They are 4mm and the same size as the balls for the retracts. $5.00 for a pack and plenty left over. worked perfect for me.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:15 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Good to know, thanks. At least your post will help someone else. I often find threads from a few years ago that have the answer I need.
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